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I cannot imagine anyone who writes as cogently as you do or has such a clarity of insight on the interactions and relationships that you are experiencing are doing any worse finding your way in this complicated and sometimes frustrating world than the rest of us as we muddle through it often insecure and questioning our own selves daily.
Well imagine it because people have told me the same thing and it's 100 percent true. Being a great writer and having insight doesn't get you very far anymore in the real world. I mean in my case I can't get any job I apply for at all and I haven't had a formal job since high school.
I don't know why people think just because we write well doesn't mean that we can get on as well as neurotypicals. I didn't learn to tie my shoes until middle school for example and I still haven't got my license.
We seem to have a little in common. The issue I'm having comes mostly from maladaptive daydreaming that I developed as a coping mechanism for stress when I was a kid. I didn't find out about the ASD until my later twenties, but I started daydreaming to cope with OCD related anxiety (concerning various phobias, social and religious phobias being my most salient). Then, things just continued in that pattern and gradually got a little worse until I wound up the way I am today.
As a child, I was fascinated with social interactions, but I often got it wrong after I got older. I had many painful experiences in school that told me that trying to make friends literally wasn't worth it. I did finally make a few friends in elementary and middle school, but by the time I got to high school, I mostly just had "frienemies." Really, I paid more attention to the people who singled me out and bullied me than I did to the people who might have cared something about me. I was in constant peril of making some kind of misstep. I became obsessed with bullying, why people did it, and how it was done. For a while, I thought it was just part of normal social interaction, but of course when I tried to bully someone else, they got upset with me and either retaliated or ostracized me. Eventually, I just stopped trying to socialize with people my age, because the rules were too complicated. I was surprised when I got to college and didn't encounter more of the same, but I was so crippled by my past experiences that I didn't even try to make friends. A few people were kind to me and made accommodations but they didn't become close friends.
After I regained some confidence in college, it was crushed during student teaching when I realized I didn't know how to interact with the students, and no one was going to teach me. They worked to ignore me and embarrass me. It really made me feel bad about myself. I ignored the warning signs and thought I was just new and would get it later. I was wrong. I struggled as a substitute teacher, too, so badly that I had to settle for last-minute jobs. I didn't take the hint. I went back for a master's in Education at the suggestion of my professor and again had a lack luster student teaching experience. During my student teaching experience, I got tested and found out I had ASD. Then, I applied for graduation and reality started to set in.
I have no idea why I'm so fascinated with socializing. I guess I've seen it mostly, in the form of bullying, as a very powerful negative force that gives people influence. Also, I feel like people who can't participate aren't seen as fully "human." I remember I also had a very bad stuttering problem as a child, and other kids always treated me as someone lower.
Wow; that IS interesting; I did not realize we had so much in common either!
I'm also obsessed with socializing. I feel as though I have spent my entire life always "on the outside looking in".
I even have a visual I use to describe it: A little girl outside in the cold, with her face pressed up against a window of a big but cozy house FULL of people. Maybe like at Christmas; gathered around a tree & eating, drinking, laughing & talking ... While I just sit & watch ... A social voyeur, I guess.
I watch people so much I can "script" very easily but that is nothing that could get you through a real friendship. I feel like I would be outed as a fraud.
Maybe it's a touch of "Echolalia", as I can actually pick up on different voice tones & fluctuations.
At 48 I'm beginning to doubt I will ever be able to change. I too; was evaluated for ASD due to problems/stress I was having on the job.
My parents had been bugging me for about 10 years to get tested ( "Just go ...we will pay for it!) but I just kept rolling my eyes at them; I thought they were nuts.
My whole family is made up of VERY high achievers. Except me.
I thought they wanted me to be "labeled" to make themselves feel better about having spawned the "black sheep" of the family.
I know now that isn't true. I do remember my typically mannerly mother storming into my elementary school, after getting the notice from the school that deemed me as "Retarded" ...She was waving her arms around yelling "Test her again! She is far from retarded; you idiots!"
I remember thinking "Huh? I thought they were testing me because they thought I was smart?!"
The "new" tests did reveal that I was reading at above the level of a HS graduate (in the 3rd grade) so they declined to place me in SPED classes.
But that meant I got ...nothing as far as services go. Except a 3rd grade teacher who would seperate me from the class to sit at a secluded desk & cut circles out of construction paper ... to try to "improve my coordination".
That made it harder with interacting with other kids. The kids, at least seemed to think I was "smart" because I could read so fast. They called me "bookworm". If "Bookworm" got seperated from the class she must have done something "bad" to deserve it. It was humiliating.
It has been a "one foot in front of the other", "one day at a time" experience for sure. If I can do it; so can you. I believe in you!
Last edited by coschristi; 11-06-2016 at 10:46 PM..
Well imagine it because people have told me the same thing and it's 100 percent true. Being a great writer and having insight doesn't get you very far anymore in the real world. I mean in my case I can't get any job I apply for at all and I haven't had a formal job since high school.
I don't know why people think just because we write well doesn't mean that we can get on as well as neurotypicals. I didn't learn to tie my shoes until middle school for example and I still haven't got my license.
NT's have plenty of problems, but they are varied. If they don't achieve then they are just losers with no excuse. That in itself is a problem that you don't have.
You did learn to tie your shoes. It took a little longer but you did it.
NT's have plenty of problems, but they are varied. If they don't achieve then they are just losers with no excuse. That in itself is a problem that you don't have.
You did learn to tie your shoes. It took a little longer but you did it.
I'm not saying that we don't all have exceptionalities. I'm a little upset that people don't compensate for them, though. Yes, I think NTs should be compensated for, too.
I guess I could just concentrate on my strengths and try to use those to my advantage. Yeah, the OCD makes things complicated, but when I can focus, I'm pretty good at writing and actually okay at holding conversations, although I usually have to think about what I'm going to say and it doesn't always lend itself to small talk. I'm better at giving prepared speeches and acting out scripts than actually trying to hold conversations. I could use this to my advantage as a teacher; there's usually just so much more going on. I'm really creative, but my creativity sometimes distracts me. Instead of applying it to my current job, I usually just daydream and use it to escape reality. I know that if I get too creative on the job, it could get me into trouble. The kids really don't care about my dreams, and it's difficult to integrate any of my ideas into the classroom setting, really. That's my fault, though. I could be a lot more productive if I were just a little more organized, if I could figure out what works and keep doing it instead of going back and constantly experimenting to "reinvent the wheel."
KMB for the last time, counselors who specialize in treating adult ASD do NOT ask or talk about your feelings, they help you navigate life with ASD and find techniques for communicating with people, etc. I also suggested a speech therapist many times; if you had been diagnosed in K-12, it would have been the speech therapist who would have taught you social skills and how to communicate and correctly interpret others facial expressions and tones. If you spend 1/10th of the time you spend on here instead on the phone with the Alabama Autism Society, your life would be a million times better.
Okay, I'll call them. I think I've called them before, but I guess it's worth a shot anyway. I don't think my insurance covers this kind of stuff, though, and, really, nothing works. Even if my counselor and I sat down and watched a recording of me during the day and how I interacted with people, it's not like I would be able to implement the suggestions given to me "off-the-cuff" without really having to think about it.
I did observe some really weird things lately, though. For one, most people change the way they talk in relation to the way they feel; that was a really odd discovery for me. I'm not talking about just tone, either. People change the whole sentence structure. I guess this makes conversations really easy for the average person, because the next response is gleaned from "reading" the person's mood and choosing automatic phrases. I guess to other people that's just "common sense," but it felt really strange to me the first time I noticed it. It means that you wouldn't normally think making a joke is okay while someone is talking about something serious, because your "tone" is supposed to mirror the other person's? That's another reason why people usually think I'm distracted, even if I'm present. The tone is something I usually don't pay a lot of attention to, because it refers to sentence structure and facial expressions more than the sound of the voice. If I can pick out from the sound of the voice or from the context of the conversation that it's supposed to be serious, then I can adjust but otherwise I might not always say what is appropriate. The object of the interaction is to participate in some kind of emotional "sharing." I thought that was a little odd, too. If someone is crying, you are supposed to make your face look sad or concerned as a way of showing support. If you concentrate on the crying, you can actually feel the grief; that was a new one for me, a very weird new experience.
If someone is crying, you are supposed to make your face look sad or concerned as a way of showing support. If you concentrate on the crying, you can actually feel the grief; that was a new one for me, a very weird new experience.
If someone opens up enough to share that they're sad, which is a risk, what would you imagine they are looking for? Empathy and validation, or indifference? Of course they want you to signal that you understand their feelings by mirroring them a bit. Not that you aren't paying attention, don't care, or are self absorbed by carrying on as if you don't see or hear them.
It's not that hard to understand once you ponder it a bit. You see? It's not that it's even entirely opaque to you, you just never intuited the rules of the game. But you CAN learn them. So enough of this "nothing works" tripe. Of course something works, you simply have to find it and deign to implement it.
KMB, why on earth did you pursue teaching as a career choice? It honestly seems like the absolute worst avenue you could have chosen given your limitations regarding social interaction and being able to recognize social cues from others. Also your OCD and inability to organize things is extremely detrimental. Frankly, along with checking out the other resources that have been recommended, I would strongly suggest you look into some vocational counseling, because you are never going to be a really successful teacher, and that will limit your income and other life choices as well.
There is a woman in a group I'm in who I'm pretty sure has Asperger's. Love her to death, but she ticks a lot of people off because she refuses to accept their advice regarding our activity. There's always an argument, and then when she finally concedes to the people who have been doing our activity for years longer than she has, she is surprised as heck when it works.
I get that your brain doesn't work the same way as the larger population. I'm the same way - I have severe ADD and I learn very differently. But there's a benefit to giving yourself over to someone else's process and THEN tweaking it to suit your needs after you understand the process and exactly why it doesn't work for you. You sound like you try something out briefly, decide it doesn't work for you and then you're back to complaining on these boards. You're never going to have instant results. When your brain is different from the average brain, it's freaking HARD.
But you need to do the long slog. There is no easy way. Life is not going to shower you with meaning and happiness. I've built what is my perfect life, and it's a lot of freaking work. I had to get my ADD under control before I could get very far - that meant research, speaking with mental health and motivational professionals (psychiatrists, life coaches), giving medication a go, cultivating relationships with mentors, and setting realistic goals (basically one step at a time).
Yeah, you're very smart and it's not fair that your brain is kind of wired in a way to make everything hard. You gotta compromise though. You're not going to get everything your way when you're pursuing your goals.
For those of you who aren't familiar with it, ASD is Autism Spectrum Disorder (once also known as Asperger's Syndrome). Basically, if you have this disorder, you can't communicate non-verbally very well and you frequently miscommunicate in ways that are significant to other people but to which you are usually oblivious. The end result is you come off as odd, disinterested, or rude depending upon the context of the situation. For example, you might make an innocent observation and say something about it a five-year-old might say and not even comprehend that what you said was inappropriate and likely to be take the wrong way. Usually, people don't correct you for these things, because they think you "should know better." You have trouble with simple social situations and often find "gray areas" in situations where everyone else sees the rules in "black and white."
As a result of the frequent miscommunication, your relationships suffer. You can't build bonds like other people do, because people have a tendency not to trust you and they blame you for "not taking responsibility for your mistakes." You want to tell everyone it's all just a big misunderstanding and you would "try harder" if you knew what to do, but you know they aren't going to believe you, so you just withdraw and, in my case, develop an unhealthy level of distrust of people. You know that it seems like everyone considers themselves superior to you, but you'll be met with contempt and accusations of acting "arrogant and foolish," if you try to mimic the attitudes other people seem to display toward you.
The problems don't stop at just having a lack luster personal life, either. You also have trouble communicating with co-workers and bosses, and you are very likely to make mistakes on your job, blunders that other people literally wouldn't have thought of making. For instance, I left my computer on at work (I work at a detention center) where it was clearly accessible to the kids for them to do whatever they wanted. I wasn't trying to do anything wrong; I just didn't consider they would have access to it because I was told that they are not allowed around my desk after I leave, and I took that to mean that the kids do not have access to my desk after I leave. Anyone else might have understood that to mean I should secure my desk and my belongings, but I took it literally and thought it meant there was nothing to worry about because the kids would not be able to access the area behind my desk!
There are many days I wish I could just act like a normal adult woman and not worry about all of these missteps. There are many days I wish I could build relationships like other people, relationships that would probably shield me from getting frequent complaints and frustrated lectures rather than patient explanation and consistent reminders. I'm surprised I've been able to keep my job this long, but I know I probably won't be able to if I keep making these errors. It is frustrating, because even people who try to work with me eventually start to feel like I'm "making mistakes on purpose" and "must know what I'm doing."
Here I am at age 30, and I still have all of the big creative dreams I wanted to fulfill by the time I left my twenties, but, alas, people have given me the cold shoulder and proven again and again that they couldn't care less about my dreams and what I want to accomplish, even if I do care about helping them, if I can. I just wish I knew what to do about this. If you've never had it, you probably think the professionals have all of the answers. Experience has taught me that they don't, or if they do, maybe I don't know how to ask the right questions?
I read a book yesterday about habit change. The whole book talks about some rugby coach, advertising guru, a successful P&G product etc but not one paragraph says "HOW" .. It says research has proved thats its possible but now HOW.It also gives a disclaimer - that its easier to say but harder to do..( Something that made sense in the whole book).
If you have to change you figure out the best way yourself. Doctors and Counsellers can only tell you what to do, when your actual condition doesnt allow you to do it..
In some ways, some of the posters here are correct, inspite of being rude . You have to change, but results would be great if you figure that by yourself. Good luck.
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