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Old 03-01-2017, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Washington state
6,972 posts, read 4,828,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueherons View Post
Someone who is a voracious reader.
Um, maybe not.

I'm printing a quote from Malcolm Gladwell's 'David and Goliath' here: "Richard Branson, the British billionaire entrepreneur, is dyslexic. Charles Schwab, the founder of the discount brokerage that bears his name is dyslexic, as are the cell phone pioneer Craig McCaw; David Neeleman, founder of Jet Blue; John Chambers,the CEO of the technology giant Cisco; Paul Orfalea, the founder of Kinko's - to name a few."

One of the things the book points out in this chapter is that being dyslexic meant these people, as children, had to find a way around not being able to read. Some became good with people, good persuaders, smart about investing, gifted in remembering what was said to them, etc. All of them said that being dyslexic was the impetus to think outside the box and succeed that way, none of them said they would wish dyslexia on anyone else, no matter how successful they felt it had made them. And none of them, it's fair to say, is a voracious reader.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
^^ Exactly.

You are either born with it, or you're not. It isn't something you can acquire via parenting or good education. Not even experience. However, not all children born with the potential will have the opportunity to develop it fully. That's where the parenting, education and experience come in. But those after-birth factors can only help develop the potential. It must already be there.

Having a PhD does not make you smart. Neither does a job that pays $250k, or having a BIL who went to school with Tom Hanks. You're either born with the potential, or you're not. Can't get it any other way.
And then again, maybe not.

Something else interesting that I read in Malcolm Gladwell's book 'Outliers' was about the study that Lewis Terman, a professor of psychology at Stanford University, made when he found 1470 children whose IQs averaged over 140 and as high as 200.

Terman followed these children for the rest of his life to see what they would accomplish. What he found was surprising. Although all were considered gifted when they were young, a lot of them became college dropouts and not really a success as we would call it. After every exhaustible reason was looked at as to the reason why, only one reason stood out. The students who had been successful had parents that engaged and encouraged them.

In the same book, Gladwell talks about the difference between disadvantaged students and students from middle class and well off families when it comes to school. When they did the testing at the end of the school year, the disadvantaged kids tested even with the kids who were more well off. However, after the kids returned to school after summer vacation, they were tested again and it was found that although the children from the well off and middle class families tested high, the disadvantaged kids' scores had dropped dramatically. Why? Because their parents or parent had to work, leaving them to entertain themselves while the children of more well off parents still interacted with their children and had the money to send them to camp and do other things with them.

He also talks about a KIPP Academy, a middle school in the South Bronx. Almost half the students are African American. The rest are Hispanic. Three quarters come from single parent homes. Ninety percent of them qualify for free or reduced lunch.

KIPP students sign a contract. They start school at 7:30am and get out at 5pm. Then they have 2 to 3 hours of homework a night. In 7th grade, KIPP students start high school algebra. By eighth grade, 84% of them are performing at or above their grade level.

Because parents want their children in this school, there is a lottery for the children to get in. They're selected randomly from lower income families living in one of the country's worst neighborhoods. In eighth grade, these students do as well in mathematics as do the privileged eighth graders from America's wealthy suburbs.

What Gladwell says about one of the students attending KIPP is this: "Marita doesn't need a brand new school with acres of playing fields and gleaming facilities. She doesn't need a laptop, a smaller class, a teacher with a PhD, or a bigger apartment (to live in). She doesn't need a higher IQ or a mind as quick as Chris Langan's. All those things would be nice, of course. But they miss the point. Marita just needed a chance." (italics are those of the author)



If we think of "intelligence" as something that can never be changed, as something that you can only be born with, how many children are we throwing away every year because of that?

Last edited by rodentraiser; 03-01-2017 at 06:34 PM..
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Old 03-01-2017, 09:39 PM
 
77,894 posts, read 60,031,380 times
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Education and ability to apply it in real life to a degree notably above average.

Everything is relative of course.

I'm in the 160+ IQ category so while I'm ignorant in some areas I'm generally regarded as *smart* by pretty much all my friends. Put me in a room with people that work in my field and I'm suddenly not so smart lol.

Let's just call this the Idiocracy phenomenon. (great movie if you haven't seen it)
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:01 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,086 posts, read 107,144,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman71 View Post
Did you completely miss my original post that basically states this very thing?
I was responding to the post where you said "knowledgeable" and "intelligent" were the same, in your regard. If you had a post in which you contradicted that, yes, I missed it.
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Old 03-02-2017, 02:53 AM
 
370 posts, read 652,285 times
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...I've met people who sound smart, maybe they have high verbal iq but low reasoning iq ... I think it's difficult to know if someone is smart...sometimes I can't tell lol.
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Old 03-02-2017, 04:16 AM
 
Location: North Dakota
10,269 posts, read 13,789,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FelixTheCat View Post
Just your opinion.
Not continually making stupid decisions and not making the same mistake over and over again.
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Old 03-02-2017, 05:03 AM
 
Location: Where the sun likes to shine!!
20,549 posts, read 30,306,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDak15 View Post
Not continually making stupid decisions and not making the same mistake over and over again.

Very true.



Also someone who asks questions about things and doesn't believe everything they watch, read or hear. THe smart ones want the facts.
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Old 03-02-2017, 06:23 AM
Status: "Mistress of finance and foods." (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
50,095 posts, read 63,467,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand&Salt View Post
What a great question. There are so many variables. I've wondered about this often.


I think my sisters are all smarter than I am. My father had a very successful business but did not plan for my mother after his death. He gave away all his money to a charity. He built an addition without a permit.


I am a voracious reader and very curious but can't do math or understand technology.


My husband can do complex mathematical calculations but I have to explain the plots of every show we watch.


I figure I'm just smart enough to know what I'm missing. The more ignorant around me seem happier.
I know, right? Our next door neighbor was a college math professor. Brilliant guy. He planted trees on his property line, but didn't know he had to water them, and they all died.
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Old 03-02-2017, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Where the sun likes to shine!!
20,549 posts, read 30,306,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
I know, right? Our next door neighbor was a college math professor. Brilliant guy. He planted trees on his property line, but didn't know he had to water them, and they all died.


Sadly book smart is not well rounded smart
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Old 03-02-2017, 07:35 AM
 
Location: City Data Land
17,156 posts, read 12,884,079 times
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Smart is impossible to define easily. Smart is an abstract concept, thus there are too many variables involved in its definition. I've administered IQ tests before and think that they are an atrocious indicator of intelligence. They are too narrow and depend on too many factors on the person's test day, especially that the person tests well and isn't scared to death of tests.

I do think that how well a person functions in the real world is a good indication of intelligence. That said, the "real world" is different for each person and culture. In hunter-gatherer societies, intelligence is dependent on how well the person can capture animals and food necessary for survival. Around here, intelligence is partially determined by how well we can support ourselves through working for a profit making business, among other things.

And what of happiness? There is something to be said of the old adage "Ignorance is bliss." People who are fully aware of the misery in the world are more affected by it and are more prone to mental illness. Lower IQ (whatever that is) may actually be better for the person if it increases their happiness quotient. Sorry if this is long winded, but the topic is quite complex, IMO.
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Old 03-02-2017, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Western U.S.
375 posts, read 294,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FelixTheCat View Post
Just your opinion.
OK.....in Psych we all agree there are basically TWO types of intelligence.............

"Crystallized" and "Fluid."

The former is the type that, unfortunately, is the less-important, but is the sort that is measured on the traditional IQ tests, like the Wechler and the Stanford-Binet. It's the type most of us took in school. But see, it measures only what you have learned. What you know. And much of that knowledge is not all that applicable in real life.

The other type, Fluid, to me, is far more important, and constitutes a much closer measure of what I call Intelligence. It's basically, without getting too technical, the ability to learn new tasks quickly and become proficient at them in the quickest amount of time. What I like about this is that it is not nearly as culturally biased as the Crystallized type of test.
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