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There is, I think, marked distinction between developing the self-control and situational awareness condign with healthy adulthood, and overcoming the internal emotional impulses normally associated with childish and jejune phase of life. For example, an adult may stem his/her rage against another driver who traduced him in traffic, by not making erratic maneuvers or flashing obscene hand-gestures or whatnot, and more or less continuing to drive calmly; nevertheless, the same person may be boiling with rage inside, his face turning scarlet with anger, and his brain indulging for the next half-hour in all sorts of macabre fantasies of torturing the offending driver.
The point is that while we can and should master how we actually behave, this nowise implies that internally we've reached a mental calmness and equanimity. We may indeed remain mired in childish tantrum-prone emotion, but have merely become adept at keeping it internal.
Up until not that long ago--my parents' generation--young people began taking on adult responsibilities by early teen years. Regardless of income levels, by the time a person was 13, he or she was picking up real responsibilities of the family farm or business, maintaining the household, or even going to work in a factory. By the time they were 20, they were pretty much as grown up as they needed to be--handling a full load of adult responsibilities--although of course they continued to mature in wisdom.
The only reason people take so long to "grow up" today is because society no longer demands anyone grow up at all. There is no point anymore at which someone is expected to "put away childish things."
A few weeks ago, I heard someone quip that it was the Boomer generation was the first in which childhood became so safe that all of the imbeciles lived long enough to reproduce.
When I hear of adults doing unbelievably rude or selfish things, I think they must have remained children or adolescents mentally speaking. And I don't mean in a positive way, like having a child-like sense of wonder or optimism. It seems some people reach adulthood being as egotistical, vain, inconsiderate, and self-centered as young people. Is this possible? Or are they purposely being jerks?
It's hard for me to believe that life experience doesn't change everyone - that they don't naturally become wiser and more even keeled. I see middle-aged and older people with road rage, acting like jerks in stores or restaurants, treating others poorly, insulting strangers, etc. And even worse, of course, some commit serious crimes. This behavior is understandable when you're talking about young people whose brains are still developing. But when it's adults ... how does this happen? What causes someone to stop developing mentally or become so callous and uncaring? Is it laziness? Arrogance? Victimization? A persecution complex? Stupidity? Bad upbringing? Low IQ? Lack of awareness?
Please, someone come up with a convincing explanation because it's hard for me to comprehend.
Maturity is not something that comes automatically despite what we've been led to believe. Maturing is a process that takes a conscience and constant effort.
Children are human beings in their most base form. They are reactionary and impulsive and unable to see how their actions would effect them going beyond the present. No matter how old we get that child like impulsiveness and reactionary instincts never goes away. As we get older the only thing we can do and that we are supposed to do is keep them in check. Some don't make this effort at all. Most adults do make some type of effort but will lapse at certain points.
When I hear of adults doing unbelievably rude or selfish things, I think they must have remained children or adolescents mentally speaking.
I'm a believer that people don't really grow up mentally as much as most people think
That's why in every job you find a bully, a gossiper, a whiner, etc, etc, just like in Middle School.
The worse ones are the sob that are truely stuck at 10 years old
go to a playground and start playing in the kids playground
That s... wasn't built for adults
In my case, I had an amazing childhood, growing up in an amazing big neighborhood far from the city but with lots of kids to play with no crime to worry about.
when I was 12 is when I first thought to myself "Ummm, I don't want to grow up anymore, this is fun"
That's why I hate to see people that are in the 30s, 40s, 50s going to a playground and using kids playground equipment.
Growing up, I couldn't wait to be an adult. I happily accept the responsibilities that go along with it, because I can't imagine many things much worse than being a powerless child.
I still had some growing up to do after I left home. I had to learn that apologizing to people doesn't diminish me in any way. People who can't apologize are immature.
Parents can't teach everything. My own parents didn't teach me much of anything -- I basically raised myself. But I still had a lot to learn from other people after reaching adulthood.
It's the people who think they know it all who are holding onto childish ways. My first husband was like that, often arrogant and rude to servers. He was often wrong but never in doubt.
Ha! Often wrong, never in doubt. Too funny.
Funny, my mother once commented to me--I'd never really thought about it at that point--that I'd had to raise myself. They were older and preoccupied with work or alcohol or conflict or social lives or whatever. I didn't do such a great job, but as Calvin Coolidge said, persistence persistence persistence...
I think the WWII generation set us Boomers up, with the best of intentions and not consciously, by not recognizing that the titanic struggles they worked through MADE them what they were. The Great Depression, WWII, those are what some of us call "character building exercises." Look at how well movie stars' kids and other scions of wealth and fame often turn out. The Trump kids are an example of how to do it despite wealth. As one of them said, perhaps the daughter, "We were the only millionaires' kids who knew how to operate a Caterpillar D-9 dozer."
Making life too easy is, mmm, too easy. "I don't want you to have to go through what I went through."
It's like the hatchling bird struggling and fighting for all it's worth getting out of the egg. The absolutely WORST thing you can do "for" that baby bird is "help" it break out of its shell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
Up until not that long ago--my parents' generation--young people began taking on adult responsibilities by early teen years. Regardless of income levels, by the time a person was 13, he or she was picking up real responsibilities of the family farm or business, maintaining the household, or even going to work in a factory. By the time they were 20, they were pretty much as grown up as they needed to be--handling a full load of adult responsibilities--although of course they continued to mature in wisdom.
The only reason people take so long to "grow up" today is because society no longer demands anyone grow up at all. There is no point anymore at which someone is expected to "put away childish things."
A few weeks ago, I heard someone quip that it was the Boomer generation was the first in which childhood became so safe that all of the imbeciles lived long enough to reproduce.
Continuing from my response above to fluffy (great screen name BTW), while many Boomers grew up to be mature responsible adults, many had it too easy. Many decided THEY wanted to be their kids' "best friends" and further indulged. Civilizations that get too accustomed to ease cease to recognize danger and at some point they will be gobbled up by that sabre toothed tiger because no, he is not nice kitty kitty, nice kitty kitty!
When I hear of adults doing unbelievably rude or selfish things, I think they must have remained children or adolescents mentally speaking. And I don't mean in a positive way, like having a child-like sense of wonder or optimism. It seems some people reach adulthood being as egotistical, vain, inconsiderate, and self-centered as young people. Is this possible? Or are they purposely being jerks?
It's hard for me to believe that life experience doesn't change everyone - that they don't naturally become wiser and more even keeled. I see middle-aged and older people with road rage, acting like jerks in stores or restaurants, treating others poorly, insulting strangers, etc. And even worse, of course, some commit serious crimes. This behavior is understandable when you're talking about young people whose brains are still developing. But when it's adults ... how does this happen? What causes someone to stop developing mentally or become so callous and uncaring? Is it laziness? Arrogance? Victimization? A persecution complex? Stupidity? Bad upbringing? Low IQ? Lack of awareness?
Please, someone come up with a convincing explanation because it's hard for me to comprehend.
On one hand, I think you let young people off the hook too easily. Most children know right from wrong at a very young age even as their brains are developing; yet naturally, they should not be held to the same accountability standards as adults. Our societal accommodation for this is to overlook or correct the mild (and even moderate) infractions committed by children.
On the other hand, growing up is work! Maturity takes effort. Responsibility takes effort.
In a culture such as ours that have difficulty communicating hard truths, immature is a softer synonym for irresponsible. Surely humankind has always had a component of those who behave irresponsibly when they should know better — but why does it seem to have gotten worse over the past half century?
Why do people continue to behave irresponsibly? There are a plethora of answers to that question, some more legitimate than others, but the most common reason is so obvious that most miss it: BECAUSE THEY CAN!!!
On the whole, 21st Century America is an extremely enabling society; often not in a good way. Soften the results of failure, severely enough, and people will learn the wrong lessons from their irresponsible mistakes. (In this regard, OP's question may be answered bad upbringing as well as stupidity — but on a societal level!)
Punishing productivity while rewarding failure will result in many people choosing to live irresponsibly because they can get away with it! Seldom, if ever, are their feet held to the fire. Indeed, for some people, irresponsibility may be the most responsible thing to choose!
Freedom is preferable to tyranny but when the responsibility of freedom degrades to irresponsibility of license, license becomes tyranny against the responsible people. If We The People want to see more of us behaving maturely, we need to stop enabling immaturity. People will grow up when they're no longer given an option not to. People will grow up when they MUST.
Up until not that long ago--my parents' generation--young people began taking on adult responsibilities by early teen years. Regardless of income levels, by the time a person was 13, he or she was picking up real responsibilities of the family farm or business, maintaining the household, or even going to work in a factory. By the time they were 20, they were pretty much as grown up as they needed to be--handling a full load of adult responsibilities--although of course they continued to mature in wisdom.
The only reason people take so long to "grow up" today is because society no longer demands anyone grow up at all. There is no point anymore at which someone is expected to "put away childish things."
A few weeks ago, I heard someone quip that it was the Boomer generation was the first in which childhood became so safe that all of the imbeciles lived long enough to reproduce.
Excellent tangent topics seem like fodder for a whole new Thread.
I don't know what generation you're in, Ralph. But my Baby Boomer generation often got part-time jobs at 14, 15, or 16. My newspaper boy career began at 10! Yes, some Boomers were jobless, but they were the exception and not the rule. So I'd take issue with the stereotype of the Boomer Generation.
But I could not agree with you more about the lack of societal demand for people to "grow up". Putting away childish things is another way of saying becoming responsible. My reply to OP expands on this.
I'm a believer that people don't really grow up mentally as much as most people think That's why in every job you find a bully, a gossiper, a whiner, etc, etc, just like in Middle School.
Yes, there is no age or moment of metamorphosis! Responsibility is learned behavior. Immaturity is mere failure to learn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo
In my case, I had an amazing childhood, growing up in an amazing big neighborhood far from the city but with lots of kids to play with no crime to worry about.
when I was 12 is when I first thought to myself "Ummm, I don't want to grow up anymore, this is fun"
That's why I hate to see people that are in the 30s, 40s, 50s going to a playground and using kids playground equipment.
For pete's sake, we do NOT ALL become even-keeled as we age. Adults are still human beings with emotions. Things will still bother us, and bother us a lot, so much that we react to it.
Some people hide their feelings well, others don't. Some people are more emotional than others, so they have outbursts and couldn't care less who sees or what people think of them when they're angry, frustrated, annoyed, etc.
Some people just have offensive personalities. They are rude, sneering, jeering, and snarky even when they're not trying to offend or hurt someone. It's just who they are. Not everyone is polite, courteous, even-tempered, calm, mild mannered like you expect ALL adults to be!!!
This whole world would be perfect if all adults ended up like you expect them to be: emotionless robots.
I don't know what generation you're in, Ralph. But my Baby Boomer generation often got part-time jobs at 14, 15, or 16. My newspaper boy career began at 10! Yes, some Boomers were jobless, but they were the exception and not the rule. So I'd take issue with the stereotype of the Boomer Generation.
Our War Gen parents grew up in a world where imbeciles tended to die before procreating--and they raised us.
But we Boomers were the first generation in which childhood was so safe most of our imbeciles lived to procreate.
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movie stars' kids and other scions of wealth and fame often turn out. The Trump kids are an example of how to do it despite wealth. As one of them said, perhaps the daughter, "We were the only millionaires' kids who knew how to operate a Caterpillar D-9 dozer."
Because They Can!
