Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Things like this happen. It may be their fault, your fault, or nobody's fault. Sometimes things change none of us can predict. However, the real test is knowing when "to fish or cut bait," as we like to see in these parts.
Exactly! It happens all the time. That's why it's important not to cast judgments and berate people for the undesirable situation they have been left in that is out of their control. But some people do it anyway (as mentioned in the OP, I think it's a minority, but a strong minority), and they do it all the time.
People can work on improving things in their lives, but I don't think they all deserve the condescension and heavy criticism for it that they sometimes receive.
The Renters forum is where I've seen the most Haves vs Have Not threads, and most posts have seemed quite fair to me. Renters often receive great advice about dealing with landlords who invade their privacy, charge for pre-existing damage, etc.
Quite a few posts by renters, however, seem pretty naive or unrealistic. Some examples are complaining that ll won't accept late or partial rent, won't rent to pets, pet fee too high, charged for replacing whole carpet when only part was smelly or destroyed, increased rent when an extra person moved in, etc. The posts responding to such renters have generally seemed straight forward but respectful to me.
Often when someone attacks another, it's because they fear that they might be that person. Like someone calls you stupid because they suspect THEY are stupid.
So some folks attack the down-and-out because they're afraid they aren't as solid and prosperous as they should be.
Exactly! It happens all the time. That's why it's important not to cast judgments and berate people for the undesirable situation they have been left in that is out of their control. But some people do it anyway (as mentioned in the OP, I think it's a minority, but a strong minority), and they do it all the time.
People can work on improving things in their lives, but I don't think they all deserve the condescension and heavy criticism for it that they sometimes receive.
This. People can work hard, and do everything 'right'....and things beyond their control can still screw them over. The company they worked for faithfully for twenty-five years goes bankrupt. Or the CEO has been embezzling funds. Or they just get a jerk boss who clears out all the 'old folk' to bring in younger and cheaper workers. Or several things can just go wrong at once--an unexpected medical bill, the car breaks down, the furnace needs replaced, a pipe bursts in the house....things that, if they happened one at a time, the person could take care of with little problem, but their luck just happened to run that this all happened at once, and saddled them with huge bills.
I strongly suspect people who look down on the have-nots have never had the wind knocked out of their sails, and don't comprehend/are afraid to acknowledge that there are things that are out of our control, and that we are all more subject to circumstance than they would like to admit. There's a saying that "Everybody is one paycheck away from disaster", but I don't think most are aware of that until it happens to them.
People make choices, you're right. Some are bone-headed for sure, and they may demand a higher level of criticism. But sometimes circumstances work against us, even when we put a lot of thought into a decision. The world does not operate in some idealistic fantasy where X amount of effort is always rewarded proportionately with Y output. Sometimes life doesn't go as planned, and I think people need to be aware of that before they go on a tirade against poor decision making, lack of work ethic, etc. because of some idealistic paradigm they have mapped out in their brain. There are a ton of examples out there where people work hard, put much thought into their decisions, and do everything possible to go about life in the right way, but life decides it has other plans for them instead.
I do agree with everything here. There are folk out there who are the authors of their own misery, where sometime you stand there and wonder if they're *deliberately* making every poor decision possible just so they can whine and ***** about how rotten their lives turned out.
And then there are people who truly are victims of circumstance, where they did everything right, and got whacked upside the head for their efforts anyway.
Without knowing all of these people individually, it's really reckless to say that all of the 'have-nots' deserve it.
In my experience here, I've picked up a general vibe among a strong, yet minority (?) contingency of posters. Whether it's the Work & Employment sub, the Relationship sub, or the Real Estate sub, there seems to be a disdain by some towards those who are perceived as "have nots". By have nots, I mean someone who is not necessarily on the controlling end of a situation. The "single guy or gal" as opposed to the couple, the "employee" as opposed to the employer, the "home buyer" as opposed to the home seller, or the "renter" as opposed to the owner. I tend to see people gang up and lash out at these types of people, often times describing them as having low worth, highly replaceable, and possessing inferior opinions on certain matters because they have not "succeeded" in certain areas of their lives.
Do you agree? If so, do you think there is some sort of perceived "successful person" group think attributing to this behavior? I notice that some of the more pointed or controversial discussions tend to devolve as a result of it turning into an "us vs. them" debate.
I'd rep you 50 points for this thread-opener if I could. You've made an excellent observation. There doesn't seem to be much debate about whether the phenomenon you're witnessing occurs, but why?
My hypothesis is you're seeing some of the more base elements of human nature at work. This is not about this site or a specific thread on it; what happens here is a microcosm of what we see in every life setting. No matter how much we would like to think of ourselves as beyond such things, most people have the reflexive inclination to want to be validated, and to get there by dominating or invalidating those on the opposite end of where we stand. A "have not" can be one of the easiest targets for domination, because people who are of lesser means in one way or another cannot effectively prove they have the equivalent value of a "have".
Of course not every "have" is a naturally dominant individual, but they will often still become cheerleaders for the "haves" who are dominant, because back-seat driving the winning team's bus is still more pleasant and empowering than being anywhere on the losing team's bus.
A couple of interesting observations: a person can be a "have" in one area of life and a "have not" in another. Or they can be a "have" and a "have not" in the same area, because which category they fall under may change depending on where they are in their lives. It's sometimes very interesting to observe how people's demeanor and behavior changes depending on the situation they've found themselves in at a given moment.
But enough about the what and why ... What we really want to get at is, if someone is a "have not", and has little reasonable odds of ever becoming a "have", how do they protect themselves from the vitriol of the "haves"? I'd say just behave in a socially dominant manner. It changes the power dynamic.
Let's take an example from what you state you're seeing on the threads, as far as excessive judgment of the less fortunate, and what not. I'd suggest communicating clearly that you're not open to judgment. Debate? Sure. Judgment? Nah. I would not continually engage the person who behaves as if they're superior because they have a great job and I don't, for example, or they have a date and I don't, or they own a home and I don't, etc. Present yourself as if your judgment of them is as valid as, or more valid than, their judgment of you.
Socially dominant people observe aggressive self-defense in those whom they formerly presumed were weak and will generally have one of following three reactions:
1. They will attack harder
2. They will go away
3. They will submit
In every single one of the above instances, the self-defending "have not" gains respect. In the case of number 3 specifically, they basically become -- or gain new support in their efforts to become -- the "have".
I'd rep you 50 points for this thread-opener if I could. You've made an excellent observation. There doesn't seem to be much debate about whether the phenomenon you're witnessing occurs, but why?
My hypothesis is you're seeing some of the more base elements of human nature at work. This is not about this site or a specific thread on it; what happens here is a microcosm of what we see in every life setting. No matter how much we would like to think of ourselves as beyond such things, most people have the reflexive inclination to want to be validated, and to get there by dominating or invalidating those on the opposite end of where we stand. A "have not" can be one of the easiest targets for domination, because people who are of lesser means in one way or another cannot effectively prove they have the equivalent value of a "have".
Of course not every "have" is a naturally dominant individual, but they will often still become cheerleaders for the "haves" who are dominant, because back-seat driving the winning team's bus is still more pleasant and empowering than being anywhere on the losing team's bus.
A couple of interesting observations: a person can be a "have" in one area of life and a "have not" in another. Or they can be a "have" and a "have not" in the same area, because which category they fall under may change depending on where they are in their lives. It's sometimes very interesting to observe how people's demeanor and behavior changes depending on the situation they've found themselves in at a given moment.
But enough about the what and why ... What we really want to get at is, if someone is a "have not", and has little reasonable odds of ever becoming a "have", how do they protect themselves from the vitriol of the "haves"? I'd say just behave in a socially dominant manner. It changes the power dynamic.
Let's take an example from what you state you're seeing on the threads, as far as excessive judgment of the less fortunate, and what not. I'd suggest communicating clearly that you're not open to judgment. Debate? Sure. Judgment? Nah. I would not continually engage the person who behaves as if they're superior because they have a great job and I don't, for example, or they have a date and I don't, or they own a home and I don't, etc. Present yourself as if your judgment of them is as valid as, or more valid than, their judgment of you.
Socially dominant people observe aggressive self-defense in those whom they formerly presumed were weak and will generally have one of following three reactions:
1. They will attack harder
2. They will go away
3. They will submit
In every single one of the above instances, the self-defending "have not" gains respect. In the case of number 3 specifically, they basically become -- or gain new support in their efforts to become -- the "have".
It's interesting.
50 rep points from you to the OP; 50 rep points from me to you.
People make choices, you're right. Some are bone-headed for sure, and they may demand a higher level of criticism. But sometimes circumstances work against us, even when we put a lot of thought into a decision. The world does not operate in some idealistic fantasy where X amount of effort is always rewarded proportionately with Y output. Sometimes life doesn't go as planned, and I think people need to be aware of that before they go on a tirade against poor decision making, lack of work ethic, etc. because of some idealistic paradigm they have mapped out in their brain. There are a ton of examples out there where people work hard, put much thought into their decisions, and do everything possible to go about life in the right way, but life decides it has other plans for them instead.
Thank You!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
