What drives people to troll? (attractive, thoughts)
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Yes. They don't talk about the topic (a restaurant for dinner) but instead talk about the person (don't listen to that snobby so-and-so).
It takes some practice, but watch for topic shifts. Any time you see the topic shift, someone's shifting it for a reason...But every time someone changes the topic from thing A to another poster, that's a troll move.
Good information. What is their motive? Getting a thread shut down? How should we respond?
If we put them on ignore or walk away, they feel vindicated and will just continue to harass
other people.
If we report them nothing is usually done.
If we call them out and stand our ground, they just keep going and going until the thread gets shut down.
I think it's 100% about status. Someone gains status through influence. They misunderstand the nature of influence, assuming that it's zero-sum, and that diminishing someone's contribution is the same thing as providing that contribution in the first place. This is why a troll trolls.
In most cases, they're driven by their own lack of real ability to contribute. They're not able to be funny, or punchy, or insightful, and are supremely jealous of those who are.
Let's say someone posts a comment. If the comment is coherent and meaningful, insightful in some way, offers information or helps to define meaning, it generates influence and provides status to the poster. Trolls think of status as zero-sum, in the sense that if someone is gaining influence, they must therefore be losing influence. So they take the OP's post as diminishing them, a form of attack. To defend themselves, they must lash out to sustain their influence state. That lashing out will include things like ad hominem attacks, irrational off-topic rants, deliberate misreadings, and sly innuendo-laced derogatory remarks - anything they think will offset the status the original poster gained by making their post.
They're also acutely aware of high-profile posters who have developed a certain influence and authority within a particular online community. By counting coup on a high-status individual, they feel they gain a disproportionate amount of status in return.
This is the distinction between trolling and over-the-top opinionated posting. Usually an opinionated poster will direct comments to a topic. They may provide evidence, commentary, or perspective, because their rhetorical purpose is to establish or refute a position. The troll directs comments based on a wholly different rhetorical purpose - to diminish the person who posted.So they'll comment to attack the authority of the OP, they'll comment to attack their message or their meaning. They'll claim the OP was irrelevant, irrational, incoherent, unhinged in some way, because their objective isn't to argue the point, but to knock the ground out from the OP.
Then when the trolling behavior generates a certain amount of ill will, the troll takes the ill will as evidence that they've gained status as an influencer. They've "set things straight" or "put that uppity-so-and-so in their place," and restored the status balance to where it was before the OP's post. They get a disproportionate amount of satisfaction from the disruption, because it ensures that nobody has an opportunity to build status - everything turns into a comment to or about the troll, and any attempt to get back on topic will be greeted by more trolling.
They're irrational in this way, maybe even vaguely sociopathic, because they're motivated by the emotional response, not by usual human measures in a community such as acceptance or agreement. They assume the OP was posting from their motivation as well, just to get that emotional response - so in some ways they see *everyone* posting as some kind of troll.
Wow, you really hit it out of the ballpark with this post. I agree with all of it, but especially the bolded parts. I see a LOT of this sort of behavior on forums.
But neither should it be a place to rile people up and to be nasty in responses. Hence the TOS:
"Be civil, no personal attacks, flaming, or insults. We may attack ideas (politely) but we do not attack the speaker of the idea."
True, but lets take the question of sexual pressure again. If someone was to respond with the advice that they felt waiting for marriage wasn't important there is absolutely nothing in that response that is uncivil, insulting, or nasty in any way. Yet here we are with posters saying that would be an inappropriate response, because it doesn't fit with what they think is proper. It's not pot stirring. It's not trolling. It's a valid opinion and perfectly acceptable as a response, even if it's not a popular or helpful opinion.
Well, I hate to put anyone on an Ignore list, mainly because I have a high tolerance level for BS apparently, but I just decided to put a pack of peterpiperpickledpepperpickers on ignore and I feel better already.
I enjoy posting in various subsections of this forum and believe me, I can tell the difference between disagreement or spirited discussion vs trolling - I think most people can. Sometimes it's easier to just enact Ye Olde Ignore Function than it is to hope that reason or justice will prevail.
As for what motivates some people to troll, I think it must boil down to very deep seated insecurity and a feeling of very low self worth. It's actually pitiful - and if their behavior wasn't so destructive I would find it sad. But it disrupts conversations between people who are truly interested in whatever the topic is, not in insulting or bullying other people, and I think allowing it to continue really degrades a site.
True, but lets take the question of sexual pressure again. If someone was to respond with the advice that they felt waiting for marriage wasn't important there is absolutely nothing in that response that is uncivil, insulting, or nasty in any way. Yet here we are with posters saying that would be an inappropriate response, because it doesn't fit with what they think is proper. It's not pot stirring. It's not trolling. It's a valid opinion and perfectly acceptable as a response, even if it's not a popular or helpful opinion.
But the thread isn't about YOU. It doesn't matter if waiting until marriage isn't important to YOU ... it's important to the OP. The one who is asking for advice. NOT advice on whether to wait, that has already been decided.
You don't tell the Orthodox Jew to eat the pork, just because you don't think it matters very much.
This is mind-blindness, just dumping your opinions on someone with no consideration for them.
But the thread isn't about YOU. It doesn't matter if waiting until marriage isn't important to YOU ... it's important to the OP. The one who is asking for advice. NOT advice on whether to wait, that has already been decided.
You don't tell the Orthodox Jew to eat the pork, just because you don't think it matters very much.
This is mind-blindness, just dumping your opinions on someone with no consideration for them.
How do you not see how wrong that is?
Because you don't know what the respondent has been through or what they might be thinking or believing. They may have a deep heartfelt belief that it is better not to wait, maybe they had that experience and it turned out badly for them. Whatever their reason is, they have the right to state it without being called a troll for doing so. They aren't being rude, uncivil, attacking or anything of the sort. People who start threads don't get to make the rules and decide who can participate or what sorts of responses they get. That's kind of the whole point I'm trying to make. Whether you or I or anyone else feels this is right or wrong has no bearing on it.
Because you don't know what the respondent has been through or what they might be thinking or believing. They may have a deep heartfelt belief that it is better not to wait, maybe they had that experience and it turned out badly for them. Whatever their reason is, they have the right to state it without being called a troll for doing so. They aren't being rude, uncivil, attacking or anything of the sort. People who start threads don't get to make the rules and decide who can participate or what sorts of responses they get. That's kind of the whole point I'm trying to make. Whether you or I or anyone else feels this is right or wrong has no bearing on it.
Who cares if "so and so tried that and it didn't work for them"? If someone believes they are obeying God, who do you think you are to talk them out of it, because you tried that once?
It's not answering the OP's request for advice on how to handle being pressured by someone, it's just dumping your thoughts on them about their decision. Zero empathy, zero help. But at least you told them how YOU feel.
If a Muslim was struggling with understanding the Koran and needed advice, would you tell them you tried being a Muslim once and it didn't work for you so they should just stop being Muslim?
You see how ignorant that is?
LOW HANGING FRUIT.
Last edited by SouthernProper; 10-13-2017 at 09:54 PM..
Who cares if "so and so tried that and it didn't work for them"? If someone believes they are obeying God, who do you think you are to talk them out of it, because you tried that once?
It's not answering the OP's request for advice on how to handle being pressured by someone, it's just dumping your thoughts on them about their decision. Zero empathy, zero help. But at least you told them how YOU feel.
If a Muslim was struggling with understanding the Koran and needed advice, would you tell them you tried being a Muslim once and it didn't work for you so they should just stop being Muslim?
Suffice it to say, you are free to post whatever you want on a thread. Whether or not it is helpful at all to the OP seems to be irrelevant to you, as long as you get your say.
I think it's completely disrespectful to use someone's thread ... not to help them ... but to suggest they compromise their beliefs, just because you don't happen to share them.
But if that's how you roll, knock yourself out.
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