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Old 10-21-2017, 05:36 PM
 
1,837 posts, read 2,015,394 times
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My cousins and I were taught when growing up by my mother’s very conservative family that if we were ever alone with a man not our husband for any reason, even for the purpose of studying in the middle of the afternoon, that we had given consent and deserved whatever happened to us. I later learned horrible stories about things that had happened to a female relative and figured that this was their way of protecting us from similar occurrences. I don’t think it taught us anything, though, except that that side of the family didn’t have our backs.

Last edited by forum_browser; 10-21-2017 at 06:15 PM..

 
Old 10-21-2017, 05:59 PM
 
Location: So Cal
52,011 posts, read 52,464,357 times
Reputation: 52524
This is subject is a major major hot button for a lot of people and it's a tough one to tip toe around. The usual comments are of course women shouldn't be assaulted. I feel stupid saying the obvious, but now that I have said the obvious I do think that women should be cognizant of their surroundings and take measures to help ensure their safety. This statement by no means is victim blaming, I most certainly don't mean it that way. Yet a lot of people go right to that and it's just really isn't. It's taking certain measures in a proactive way. I'd say the same for a man. It would makes sense for a man to do the same. This stuff is unisex really. Women are indeed assault more than men are and I'm sure that has to be a truism. That makes it even more important that women are proactive about things.
 
Old 10-21-2017, 06:03 PM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,492,959 times
Reputation: 19722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
This is subject is a major major hot button for a lot of people and it's a tough one to tip toe around. The usual comments are of course women shouldn't be assaulted. I feel stupid saying the obvious, but now that I have said the obvious I do think that women should be cognizant of their surroundings and take measures to help ensure their safety. This statement by no means is victim blaming, I most certainly don't mean it that way. Yet a lot of people go right to that and it's just really isn't. It's taking certain measures in a proactive way. I'd say the same for a man. It would makes sense for a man to do the same. This stuff is unisex really. Women are indeed assault more than men are and I'm sure that has to be a truism. That makes it even more important that women are proactive about things.
Maybe you then can answer when a woman may finally go to a man's house for any reason and accept a beverage he gives her?

I'd like to know the precise line where this is drawn.

Having just met: wrong, and putting at an obvious risk

So then he gets her number, and date number one this happens.

Date Two.

Date Three

Date Four

Date Five

So on and so forth, at what point is a woman no longer at fault if she is drugged and raped by a date?
 
Old 10-21-2017, 06:29 PM
 
Location: So Cal
52,011 posts, read 52,464,357 times
Reputation: 52524
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
Maybe you then can answer when a woman may finally go to a man's house for any reason and accept a beverage he gives her?

I'd like to know the precise line where this is drawn.

Having just met: wrong, and putting at an obvious risk

So then he gets her number, and date number one this happens.

Date Two.

Date Three

Date Four

Date Five

So on and so forth, at what point is a woman no longer at fault if she is drugged and raped by a date?
You're the crowd I was talking about.

Please use your reading skills. Did I say anything about rape being ok????

Jeezus already.

The perpetually offended club with an agenda. No sane person wants or condones any nefarious activities. You types ruin a conversation that could potentially help young women. We need these convo's to help ensure safety.
 
Old 10-21-2017, 06:46 PM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,492,959 times
Reputation: 19722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
You're the crowd I was talking about.

Please use your reading skills. Did I say anything about rape being ok????

Jeezus already.

The perpetually offended club with an agenda. No sane person wants or condones any nefarious activities. You types ruin a conversation that could potentially help young women. We need these convo's to help ensure safety.
I am not a member of that club. The OP is blaming women who do certain things, not condoning nefarious activity. He probably isn't coming back to answer my question, so I'm seeing if anyone else can.

You said women should also take precautions, so you should be able to answer my question on when we are 'safe' regarding the specific topic of the OP.
 
Old 10-21-2017, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Canada
6,141 posts, read 3,360,206 times
Reputation: 5789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
You're the crowd I was talking about.

Please use your reading skills. Did I say anything about rape being ok????

Jeezus already.

The perpetually offended club with an agenda. No sane person wants or condones any nefarious activities. You types ruin a conversation that could potentially help young women. We need these convo's to help ensure safety.
I hear ya!! I recall back in the 60's my big brother ( 5 years older) taught me self-defence because he knew what I would and could be facing! He to this day ( some 57 years later) still has my back. Both he and myself taught our children ( Males and females) appropriate behaviours with women and men! Anytime it became offensive or manipulative .. SHT it down!! Report it etc etc.

Having said all that I have to mention the usage of Drugs that disabled one which was unheard of back then.. BUT I learned about since I was in "Training/Nursing" so ALWAYS HAD MY SPIDEY senses about me ( I;m talking about the late 60's and early '70's) IF anyone wants to suggest women were revered and held sacred... LOL.. NOPE, Women were only revered once they became some sort of "CHATTEL" who looked after YOUR interest ( Men)!!

Point I'm making is really sure some girls are loose.. but compared to the norms... it's like 1 out of many many many thousands who play that game. Even us girls back in the '60's knew just who the Lossey" girls were.. BUT never ever wanted to follow such activities.. In fact we felt pity for them as realized they didn't have Self-Respect!!

IF the Op expects women ( like the one in many thousands) to be responsible.. THEN why not ASK?? Why don't men get held responsible.. BY not being held responsible THEY ( MEN) are admitting WOMEN are more powerful than they are ( which is an oxymoron) Men are not just as responsible.. BUT men ( not the women) can actually cause/conduct intercourse and exchange of bodily fluids!! I to date have never heard that any female can self-intercourse themselves ?????

I'm sick and tired of men who love to blame the victims of rape or girls that they perceived as coy or whoops.. became vulnerable!! WHEN will men admit it!!
 
Old 10-21-2017, 07:08 PM
 
Location: So Cal
52,011 posts, read 52,464,357 times
Reputation: 52524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndarn View Post
I hear ya!! I recall back in the 60's my big brother ( 5 years older) taught me self-defence because he knew what I would and could be facing! He to this day ( some 57 years later) still has my back. Both he and myself taught our children ( Males and females) appropriate behaviours with women and men! Anytime it became offensive or manipulative .. SHT it down!! Report it etc etc.

Having said all that I have to mention the usage of Drugs that disabled one which was unheard of back then.. BUT I learned about since I was in "Training/Nursing" so ALWAYS HAD MY SPIDEY senses about me ( I;m talking about the late 60's and early '70's) IF anyone wants to suggest women were revered and held sacred... LOL.. NOPE, Women were only revered once they became some sort of "CHATTEL" who looked after YOUR interest ( Men)!!

Point I'm making is really sure some girls are loose.. but compared to the norms... it's like 1 out of many many many thousands who play that game. Even us girls back in the '60's knew just who the Lossey" girls were.. BUT never ever wanted to follow such activities.. In fact we felt pity for them as realized they didn't have Self-Respect!!

IF the Op expects women ( like the one in many thousands) to be responsible.. THEN why not ASK?? Why don't men get held responsible.. BY not being held responsible THEY ( MEN) are admitting WOMEN are more powerful than they are ( which is an oxymoron) Men are not just as responsible.. BUT men ( not the women) can actually cause/conduct intercourse and exchange of bodily fluids!! I to date have never heard that any female can self-intercourse themselves ?????

I'm sick and tired of men who love to blame the victims of rape or girls that they perceived as coy or whoops.. became vulnerable!! WHEN will men admit it!!
The wording in the OP doesn't make me comfortable, can't exactly explain it, but something about it has a tone. I just think basic common sense should be applied is all. Of course things happen even with all the precautions in the world taken. It's just an ugly fact that a certain segment of men/society is going to prey on people, women, in this case.

You hear stories of a girl getting hammered at frat parties and gang rape happening. I mean it just makes ya sick thinking about it. It happens and people seem to know about it at a given party. Some girl passed out drunk or possibly drugged by someone, either way and she's getting raped by multiple guys and people sometimes know it's happening and nothing gets done. I don't have kids but if I had a kid and they stood by and let that happen I would be heartbroken. I mean just wrecked. I mean go outside, use your phone call 911 and report a rape happening. You don't even have to physically intervene although that would be preferable.

My only point was that women should just use basic sense. Travel in pairs if possible, use common sense and be aware of your surroundings. In a perfect nothing would happen but we don't live in a perfect world. Just use the most caution with the most reasonable safety approach as necessary.

We can't go around in constant fear but we can do some things to help mitigate to some degree, again, not always possibly, unfortunately.
 
Old 10-21-2017, 07:30 PM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,492,959 times
Reputation: 19722
The topic of the OP is going home with strange men and then getting drugged. People that agree, I'd like an answer to this:

When may a woman may finally go to a man's house for any reason and accept a beverage he gives her and it be considered safe to do so?

I'd like to know the precise line where this is drawn.

Having just met that evening: wrong, and putting at an obvious risk

So then he gets her number, and date number one this happens.

Date Two.

Date Three

Date Four

Date Five

So on and so forth, at what point is a woman no longer at fault if she is drugged and raped by a date?
 
Old 10-21-2017, 07:33 PM
 
Location: So Cal
52,011 posts, read 52,464,357 times
Reputation: 52524
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
The topic of the OP is going home with strange men and then getting drugged. People that agree, I'd like an answer to this:

When a woman may finally go to a man's house for any reason and accept a beverage he gives her and it be considered safe to do so?

I'd like to know the precise line where this is drawn.

Having just met that evening: wrong, and putting at an obvious risk

So then he gets her number, and date number one this happens.

Date Two.

Date Three

Date Four

Date Five

So on and so forth, at what point is a woman no longer at fault if she is drugged and raped by a date?
There isn't a precise answer, it's why I didn't bother to answer it.

It's unknowable at the end of the day. It's hard to tell when some guy is a creep if he's a true anti-social personality type.

Use caution and do the best you can is all you can do. Don't accept drinks from men you don't know is about the best you can do..

What do you really expect as an answer?????
 
Old 10-21-2017, 07:41 PM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,492,959 times
Reputation: 19722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
There isn't a precise answer, it's why I didn't bother to answer it.

It's unknowable at the end of the day. It's hard to tell when some guy is a creep if he's a true anti-social personality type.

Use caution and do the best you can is all you can do. Don't accept drinks from men you don't know is about the best you can do..

What do you really expect as an answer?????
I'm expecting an answer from someone/anyone who agrees with the OP. Maybe you don't agree that the woman going home with a man she just met that evening makes her partially responsible and so you can't answer on that basis.

If you do think that in any way makes her responsible, then just ask yourself my question. At what point does all responsibility come off us and ONLY on to the rapist?

There must be some point between going home with the same night and a predator who is willing to wait years.
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