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I've been thinking about this. Yes I know life isn't fair and that there is no proof of 'karma' in this existence. Maybe another one but definitely not here. People get sh*t that they don't deserve (in before someone commits the fallacy of relative privation i.e. starving African children). There are inevitably winners and losers.
What I'm trying to get to is, given the fact the degree of our success or failure is largely contributed by factors outside our control (facial/bodily appearance, society, intelligence, wealth, and persistence), would you say that some people no matter how 'hard' they try, may "improve" but will always be the long time depressed, weird looking guy with a wife that likes him who has to exude overconfidence to try and keep him from killing himself?
People will say that I'm being shallow, superficial and need to know that with "hard work", you can get anywhere in life. I agree (to a certain extent, can't speak though since I'm the example above). But even then, wouldn't you agree that persistence/perseverance and hard work are to a degree "genetic qualities"?
I highly doubt for example that Mr Bill Gates or Steve Jobs were depressed to the point that they had homicidal/suicidal thoughts every day.
Someone will again say that there are LOADS of people with depression, ****ty families, bad looks, other health conditions that struggle and succeed but do they really have much "choice" in that. Would you not say again that they probably had an intrisnic "drive"? Would they really have had multi-dimensional problems that would have instead turned them from being just depressed to the next Ted Bundy, Adam Lanza, James Holmes, or Elliot Rogder?
Funnily enough, on Reddit where I see so many "pull yourself up bootsrap" posts are, people also talk about the confirmation bias of success. The ugly depressed virgin in his 20s that was bullied and had two suicide attempts who went on to start his own business is most likely the 1% after the 99% that just went on a mass shooting, killed themselves or got addicted to drugs.
Sub-par compared to what? As far as my understanding of life goes, it's all about never being good or having enough. You could be living comfortably in your nice home in a 1st world country and you still want or need more. Even if you don't have a pot to **** in or scraps to eat, you still want or need those things otherwise you're screwed. It's just life as a human being. Nobody's perfect nor will will we ever be. Now that isn't to say don't try to better yourself or grow, but let's not pretend we will become flawless individuals some day. Someone or even yourself will always see something wrong with you. Whether believe them is entirely on you.
No matter the circumstances, we have free will. We make choices that influence our lives. If we live in a modern, Wastern society we do have a freer hand to determine our fate.
And our personal fate is so much more than our economic status!
But not every option is open to every person.
I think the trick to escaping the feeling of meaninglessness, is to find value in your actions as spouse, parent, child, employee, and whatever other role you play. You are probably important to a number of people who love you. If so, you are rich.
And, I think another way to find meaning, is to spread kindness every day. Do not be a receiver; be a giver.
That’s my opinion.
Since you sound terribly distressed, I want to mention that counseling mught be apprpriate for you, so you can learn how to deal with your negative thoughts, and to help you find some peace.
If you have clinical depression, it might not be related to your actual life circumstances. Maybe your negative thoughts are caused by feeling bad.
Alternatively, you might be thinking yourself into depression with your negative thoughts.
Or it could be going in both directions at once.
When depression is caused biologically/chemically you could approach it with psychiatric drugs. But those drugs don't work for everyone, and they are not a cure, and they can cause additional problems.
Lifestyle improvements are known to help at least somewhat. Aerobic exercise is great for every health problem, physical or mental. If a little doesn't work, try a lot. Nutrition is also important.
If the cause is mainly psychological -- your negative ideas about yourself and your life -- then this is under your control. You create your thoughts, and you don't have to create bad thoughts. No one is making you do that except yourself. So stop.
I had some really really lousy things happen in the past. I was sick but had to continue working full time, my mother was disabled, my siblings were cruel to me. It felt like the whole world was against me, and in a way I guess it was. I often wanted to die.
What helped me most was prayer, and just hanging on and making the best of things, and having patience. I did not ever feel despair, even when I wanted to die. That doesn't make sense, I know, but it's how it was. Terrible suffering can make anyone want to die, but they can still feel hopeful that things will get better.
From your description, it doesn't sound like your life is terrible, unless you actually have clinical depression, which is a serious illness and causes terrible suffering.
Comparing your life to others, and feeling yours is not as great, is just a waste of everything. There is always someone who has it better than someone. If we have disadvantages, we can look at them as challenges. The less naturally beautiful person can work at looking better, the less intelligent can work at being smarter. If everything is just handed to you, life is probably very boring.
You have to have boots for that whole bootstrap theory to work. Your parents have to have money for you to be successful. They have to buy you the boots. If you have none, you will work hard all your life and have little to show for it. Except maybe you can buy YOUR kids the boots.
Doesn't matter how hard you work. We will always have more poor people than anything else. There will always be exceptions but this is how it works for the vast majority. All we can do is slog on and make the best we can of it.
You have to have boots for that whole bootstrap theory to work. Your parents have to have money for you to be successful. They have to buy you the boots. If you have none, you will work hard all your life and have little to show for it. Except maybe you can buy YOUR kids the boots.
Doesn't matter how hard you work. We will always have more poor people than anything else. There will always be exceptions but this is how it works for the vast majority. All we can do is slog on and make the best we can of it.
My parents hardly helped me at all when it came to getting educated and making money. I never had a great income, but I lived on less than I made. Anyone can do that. You just can't buy every gadget and you can't have a lot of luxuries.
I have a suspicion it's both nature and nurture at work.
Given recent events in my extended family, this is interesting to think about. So my cousin just died. She was stabbed in the neck by her boyfriend, and she died. We have not been close, since we were kids, though we were cousins of the same approximate age range and were therefore somewhat friends as children. Family reunions, "kids go play"...those kinds of things. We come from at least partially the same genes. Yet our branches of the family went in very different directions. I had an Aunt on the other side of my family who influenced me greatly, and I developed a little bit of class, I guess. Her surroundings and upbringing, her Mom and her Grandma (I'm related to her Dad, not them) were very rough, trashy rural NC people, and she had kids really young. The last time I saw her, she was a teenager with a toddler child who was filthy and drinking soda from a bottle, running around in a sagging diaper. She was maybe 41 or 42 years old tops, when she died, which was a few days ago. The news article had a photo of her boyfriend. His neck and head are covered in tattoos.
I, on the other hand, now live in a beautiful home in a beautiful state with a wonderful man. I have a good job, making good money. I'm not wildly successful in every possible area of my life, but I'm pretty happy with things, overall. I'm not worried anyone is going to murder me, particularly, though things did get dodgy with an ex a couple of years back. No matter the hardship I suffer (in 1999, I was homeless) I come back swingin' and tend to be upwardly mobile in general, in life.
Why did one of us become drug addicted, involved in abusive relationships that led to murder, teen mom of daughters who would go on to be teen moms themselves? Why did one of us wind up reasonably successful and definitely happy?
Maybe there's a genetic component. Maybe it was the influences around us as we grew to adulthood? Maybe both.
I've been thinking about this. Yes I know life isn't fair and that there is no proof of 'karma' in this existence. Maybe another one but definitely not here. People get sh*t that they don't deserve (in before someone commits the fallacy of relative privation i.e. starving African children). There are inevitably winners and losers.
What I'm trying to get to is, given the fact the degree of our success or failure is largely contributed by factors outside our control (facial/bodily appearance, society, intelligence, wealth, and persistence), would you say that some people no matter how 'hard' they try, may "improve" but will always be the long time depressed, weird looking guy with a wife that likes him who has to exude overconfidence to try and keep him from killing himself?
People will say that I'm being shallow, superficial and need to know that with "hard work", you can get anywhere in life. I agree (to a certain extent, can't speak though since I'm the example above). But even then, wouldn't you agree that persistence/perseverance and hard work are to a degree "genetic qualities"?
I highly doubt for example that Mr Bill Gates or Steve Jobs were depressed to the point that they had homicidal/suicidal thoughts every day.
Someone will again say that there are LOADS of people with depression, ****ty families, bad looks, other health conditions that struggle and succeed but do they really have much "choice" in that. Would you not say again that they probably had an intrisnic "drive"? Would they really have had multi-dimensional problems that would have instead turned them from being just depressed to the next Ted Bundy, Adam Lanza, James Holmes, or Elliot Rogder?
Funnily enough, on Reddit where I see so many "pull yourself up bootsrap" posts are, people also talk about the confirmation bias of success. The ugly depressed virgin in his 20s that was bullied and had two suicide attempts who went on to start his own business is most likely the 1% after the 99% that just went on a mass shooting, killed themselves or got addicted to drugs.
What do you think?
I think that what people choose to "settle" with changes over time. So, there's a sliding scale for what's tolerable and what's not tolerable for any one individual. People don't necessarily have the same wants and needs over their lives. Some people are more resistant to changing their beliefs about what they should accomplish or what they deserve. Other people re-evaluate more easily. It could be that a person that some would consider TOO compliant or TOO likely to give up and settle, is actually someone who is very flexibly-minded. This might be a good survival tactic when faced with these external factors beyond their control. So, do they cave or do they adjust? Do they end up happier either way? I'd say it depends on the person, not just the deck that's stacked against them.
I'm not saying its OK to give up on a life long dream, but that its not that simple. So much of how we think is influenced by our upbringing. Even if we were always a rebel against bad parents or a bad living situation it does leave a mark. Even if we caved in to "fate" and settled for a lot less, we might still be happy. Some people have no real sense of what they want from their life beyond basic survival. Others seem to have this huge expectation that can never be fulfilled. I really believe that the superficial things about a person really don't prevent them from being successful.
Maybe this example might clarify what I was trying to say:
When I was a kid, my dream was to be a "forest ranger". To live and work out in the sticks surrounded by nature, animals, few people, dealing with trees and wilderness. Sure, I was a city kid, ignorant about the realities this required, but it was a huge motivation. My upbringing wasn't unusual. Supportive parents who cared that their kids were able to be individuals. Not well off, just ordinary. In high school someone commented that I'd need to excel in math and sciences in order to do this. I absolutely hated the hard sciences and consequently was no good at them. So, my dream changed, and I let it go. Was I wishy-washy? Did I let some passerby acquaintance upset my plans? Maybe, maybe not.
Anyway, fast forward to college where I was NOT studying sciences. The arts I was studying were joyful and pretty easy. Happy me. One day I happened to visit a local nature preserve and happened to meet up with the manager on a trail. I got completely fired up about his job and how he got it. That old tossed-aside dream came back again twice as strong. The odds were certainly against me making this big of a change in education, my coursework skills were totally wrong, SAT scores frowned, I had zero skills other than an innate interest, no member of my family ever set foot off the pavement so I didn't even have familiarity from relatives to base on. Physically there were problems facing me if I chose this harsh life. There were a lot of odds stacked against this.
One little combination of things; an external factor and an internal one tipped the balance and I'll never forget it.
I happened to call a state employment agency and happened to get a very patient person on the phone. Started to ramble on and on about this vague profession of my dreams, but didn't even know where to start. This lovely woman listened and finally offered to read off a list of professional titles that seemed close. Then she gave me the required educational and experience needed to qualify for them. I was off to the races, just burning with ambition all because of a chance meeting and a chance phone call. I changed my major to wildlife science, faced all those same hard science classes with a new eye (they suddenly became bearable). Even my potential future student adviser at the new university tried to talk me out of it. Couldn't blame him; I handed this crusty old field biologist with books under his belt (and two missing fingers lost to a coyote trap) a transcript full of literature, music (yeah, harpsichord), and philosophy classwork. Not a single biological class anywhere.
Fast forward to a BS degree in wildlife biology. Again, the odds for ever being successful getting work in that field were huge. Just about all positions in this field are governmental. If Congress or a state ain't budgeting for this, the gov ain't hiring, you ain't working. Period. So, you shift and make do, but eventually the stars align and you make it. Some hiring official likes a comment you made in a cover letter or during a phone interview. That could be all it takes to crack the door open.
I recently retired from a 34 year career in wildlife biology/wilderness management. Was it hard? Heck yeah. Was I fulfilled? Mostly. Would I have been happier in the arts instead? Probably not. Was I burned out and used up by the time I retired? Definitely. Its up to me to decide whether I resent getting burned out, rejected, defeated at different times in that career. That changes every day.
So, again I'd ask...what dream was given up and what dream replaced it? Did I cave or did I resist caving?
Last edited by Parnassia; 02-02-2018 at 03:44 PM..
What do I think? I think success in life comes with learning to be less materialistic. You can have all the money and possessions possible but if you have a negative mindset you will always be unhappy about something. To me success is learning to be comfortable with the parts of your life you have no power to change.
Life isn't fair and nothing can change that. Not even legislation.
But everyone can, with help, learn how to think a different way about what they do have. These are the people everyone is more drawn to and because of that they can also gather up riches in love and friendship. That's something no one can buy.
Life is like weather. Sometimes you have to have your picnic in the rain. Or you can give up having picnics.
At least we always have choices.
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