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In some societies it is literally set up that way, to the point that the only people who get ahead do those bad things. Then enforcement is selective against people the powers-that-be don't like. (I'm thinking of certain corrupt third world countries in which bribes are needed to get anything done)
If you don't want these excused to be used, make sure that everyone isn't systematically doing these things to get ahead and succeeding.
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Originally Posted by stan4
Great way to put this.
I feel like "everyone else does it" is the excuse everyone uses for all their bad behavior.
"Everyone speeds."
"Everyone has stolen."
"Everyone cheats."
People of low character cannot imagine other people live a very different life.
This is everything from the person who is a burden to their affiliates in a direct manner, requiring perpetual rescue from their crisis of the day...to the criminal who victimizes others, and who then becomes a burden of the State, but will not change their ways because they believe it was never their own fault.
There is a middle path; the criminal should do his/her time and be released, but after being released allowed to get a job that will support himself/herself and not be overly burdened post-release. Some industries are okay with hiring felons, but in many cases a felony will mess up a person for life.
I feel like "everyone else does it" is the excuse everyone uses for all their bad behavior.
"Everyone speeds."
"Everyone has stolen."
"Everyone cheats."
People of low character cannot imagine other people live a very different life.
How about when a whole society is filled with thieves, thugs, and crooks?
What separates American greatness from others, or if you will the West from others? Part of the answer is rule of law, imperfect though it may be. And it is that.
For example: I've dated various nationals from one country in particular, call it "the East". Currently a dangerous place to wander around, run by thugs and thieves with ex head of the secret police in charge. The mob runs freely. Over here, most of them (ex-pats) are hard as the hammer and bent as the Soviet sickle that crosses it. Government exists to be screwed, taxes to be not-paid. Markets are black-market only, where possible, as taxes are paid to thieves and thugs who in-turn believe that their positions are sinecures, not something that actually benefits the taxpayers or holds up the State. The State itself represents monstrous, corrupt cronyism in something like half the governments on Earth.
Orwell was right (ref: 1984), the Low will always be the Low. The Middle try and swap places with the High, the High fight off the Middle. I know, I'm trying to displace the High. The Low lose, in part due to ignorant, stupid attitudes like "the world is against me." I see it in the eyes and attitudes of contractors here where I live, land of affluence, paying what I call "Kirkland tax" for having the audacity to be successful. Whatever: when I catch it I make every effort to bust them down to 3/4 what they are worth, thus perpetuating their perceptions. Too bad, huh?
I'll expand further on my quasi-rebuttal of Steve McDonald's point. Here's a YouTube comment that's a winner. He/she was talking about politics but it can refer to any criminal activity or unethical activity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL...ECK8f7hNl7T_ly
Quote:
It's because the self-optimizing will outcompete the non-optimizing. When there is power, and a value that can be sacrificed for an increase in power overall, people will take the obvious (selfish) choice, because if they don't, someone else will, and that will make their life much worse than not being selfish. Basically the Prisoner's Dilemma is everywhere in structures of power. In a bit more complex terms, unless there's sufficient disincentive to throw a value/activity, that costs whatever runs the system, out the window (like cooperation, education, health, social advancement, wages, food, transportation, whatever), the system will tend towards throwing that value/activity out. This is how evolution works, this is how social structures work, this is how economic structures work. Basically everything works like this. The most seemingly beneficial short-term action (when benefit vs cost is taken into account) will just about always be taken. It's like the democracy that suddenly becomes mega-rich through a means that completely circumvents the populace. When you CAN quit caring about your citizens without suffering any meaningful harm, it's obviously in your best interests to do so. There are exceptions where moral values are of great intrinsic importance to an individual... and sometimes those individuals make this work, there are benevolent dictators after all. But the VAST majority of the time, those people will be outcompeted by people with less morals up until a balance point is reached.
This is why many criminals are upset at being caught.
Is there really anything wrong with the victim mentality? How does it affect you or me (so long as they obviously don't commit crime). I've never understood this strong revulsion in society towards anyone who doesn't fit the definition of mature/responsible/capable/mentally strong/etc..
There's a problem being immature and irresponsible? Say it ain't so!
I'm talking about people who whine about everything. They do it out of habit, ignorance, or stupidity.
An example is the children who "protest gun violence" by walking out of school. Since when did kids get the "right" to walk out of class in mass?
Would they be allowed to do that if they wanted to protest corrupt FBI and DoJ officials?
They are being led down the garden path, protesting will NOT stop the next shooter. A good guy with a gun will stop the next shooter.
Not glorifying and publicizing those who act criminally for fame would help.
Kids not acting bratty and snooty and cliquish would help.
Kids not seeking fame for soulless actions that harm countless others would help.
But they are taught those traits, mostly, at home or in their peer groups by others who learned bad habits, what was once called poor character or irresponsibility or unkindness, and I don't see that changing.
An example is the children who "protest gun violence" by walking out of school. Since when did kids get the "right" to walk out of class in mass?
Would they be allowed to do that if they wanted to protest corrupt FBI and DoJ officials?
They are being led down the garden path, protesting will NOT stop the next shooter. A good guy with a gun will stop the next shooter.
Actually the students can, and should, be allowed to march in the case of "FBI and DoJ officials".
A good guy with a gun will only be able to stop the shooter if he's very well-trained; otherwise he'll contribute to the problem as he won't know what's heads or tails in an emergency
I recall at the shooting of Gabby Giffords, there was a guy who had a gun but he didn't use it.
Criminals roll their eyes or have attitudes when they get arrested because they don't like being caught!! They want to do whatever they want to do. Don't we all? The only difference is that what they want to do is illegal.
Also, some people just hate authority because they don't like to be judged ir they just plain want to do whatever the heck they want to do without consequences.
Actually the students can, and should, be allowed to march in the case of "FBI and DoJ officials".
A good guy with a gun will only be able to stop the shooter if he's very well-trained; otherwise he'll contribute to the problem as he won't know what's heads or tails in an emergency
I recall at the shooting of Gabby Giffords, there was a guy who had a gun but he didn't use it.
There is training and there is presence of mind. Both are helpful.
The guy at the Giffords shooting was not ready for prime time.
It could be perceived that if you're trained (at least a CCP class or two) and armed and present at a shooting event, you have a duty to protect. That's not statutory, but it's ethical-utory.
Cops hit the target well under 40% of the time. Rare is the cop who's a dead eye, especially under adrenaline influence. The cop who stopped the two AK-armed thugs in Garland Texas a couple of years ago:
(CNN)It wasn't a fair fight.
On one side, you had two men in body armor, toting assault rifles and showing every willingness to open fire now and count their victims later. On the other, you had a security officer -- a traffic officer by day -- with a pistol.
Somehow, the officer won.
Authorities have not released the name of the overmatched Garland, Texas, police officer who stopped a pair of gunmen Sunday night outside that city's Curtis Culwell Center, where people had gathered at an event featuring controversial cartoons of the Muslim Prophet Mohammed. But they have described what he did, actions that could be characterized as equal parts skillful, heroic and miraculous.
U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson lauded the police officer for having "acted quickly and decisively, and thereby likely (saving) a number of innocent lives."
"He did what he was trained to do," added Garland police spokesman Joe Harn. "And under the fire that he was put under, he did a very good job."
ISIS threatens attacks against the U.S.
It was NOT a fair fight. On one hand, you have a cool character who's a crack shot with his .45. OTOH, you have two overconfident loonies in full battle rattle with weapons they had not mastered.
"Somehow" the officer won? "...he did a very good job," ? Yeah.
If these people were rational they wouldn’t be committing these crimes.
When powerful emotions are involved, one can go from rational to irrational in a heartbeat! And it could happen to any of us, not knowing what are breaking points are.
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