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I hope no one takes that word 'genuine' the wrong way but from what I've observed, a lot of people who are depressed have suicidal thoughts however wouldn't attempt suicide because they don't want to cause grief to their family. I am suicidal myself along with having homicidal ideation and have been since I was a teenager at around 13 or 14. I didn't think it would get better and so far it hasn't but I'm neutral at this point.
Contrary to mainstream psychology/therapy, I don't see it as an irrational decision and in fact think it can be an honest reaction to the cruelty of human existence. What I've learned VERY well is that this is an unpopular and anomalous opinion to the point where I spend most of my days only frequenting a subreddit on Reddit with people who have decided that suicide will be their ultimate end because most people just don't want to discuss it.
Aside from that, I've never met anyone in my country who has the same conviction of suicide as people on small internet forums. I was in a psych ward voluntarily for 2 months from Jan - March of this year. People were very open and honest there about any type of issue they had. They were many young people who had suicidal ideation but that was just it. A thought and not any planning from the way they spoke of it. I've encountered this brief discussion as well in school where some people shared that they were suicidal but that was just it. No in-depth talk.
The country that I live in, Ireland supposedly has one of the highest suicide rates in Europe but so far, I've never heard of anyone personally dying by suicide. I understand it's incredibly stigmatized and can bring shame to discuss for those who have lost someone to it but it just seems like such a contrast to what we here about in the media regarding how many people suffer from depression. So many people are said to be depressed but few ever discuss it. Even when I was a teenager, no one in my school had ever killed myself according to my guidance counselor. No one discussed depression in my school even though there's a stereotype that teenagers are always moody and depressed.
I don't know a lot about the topic, but I'm guessing that in a lot of cases, when a family member commits suicide, it doesn't get mentioned in an obituary. I'm wondering if there are statistics regarding reported suicides.
I've known of 4 people, in my circle of family/friends/aquaintances, who were affected by a suicide. My ex husband's cousin killed herself, and then a few years later, another of his cousins killed himself.
My brother had a neighbor who had gambled everything away, and the day the bank was coming to take his house, he hung himself in the garage, where his wife found him.
And just last week, a friend of mine, her 12 yr. old niece hung herself, and died.
And I often wonder, when you read about a drug overdose, if it wasn't an intentional effort to commit suicide?
I don't know a lot about the topic, but I'm guessing that in a lot of cases, when a family member commits suicide, it doesn't get mentioned in an obituary. I'm wondering if there are statistics regarding reported suicides.
I've known of 4 people, in my circle of family/friends/aquaintances, who were affected by a suicide. My ex husband's cousin killed herself, and then a few years later, another of his cousins killed himself.
My brother had a neighbor who had gambled everything away, and the day the bank was coming to take his house, he hung himself in the garage, where his wife found him.
And just last week, a friend of mine, her 12 yr. old niece hung herself, and died.
And I often wonder, when you read about a drug overdose, if it wasn't an intentional effort to commit suicide?
Does your city/state have a high suicide rate? It's interesting (well quite grim but you get what I mean), that in Dublin I only know 1 person in my 10 years of living that's killed themselves. Was a sports coach and looked pretty stressed. I didn't find out though until 6 months later because no one spoke of it.
I hope no one takes that word 'genuine' the wrong way but from what I've observed, a lot of people who are depressed have suicidal thoughts however wouldn't attempt suicide because they don't want to cause grief to their family. I am suicidal myself along with having homicidal ideation and have been since I was a teenager at around 13 or 14. I didn't think it would get better and so far it hasn't but I'm neutral at this point.
Aside from that, I've never met anyone in my country who has the same conviction of suicide as people on small internet forums. I was in a psych ward voluntarily for 2 months from Jan - March of this year. People were very open and honest there about any type of issue they had. They were many young people who had suicidal ideation but that was just it. A thought and not any planning from the way they spoke of it. I've encountered this brief discussion as well in school where some people shared that they were suicidal but that was just it. No in-depth talk.
The country that I live in, Ireland supposedly has one of the highest suicide rates in Europe but so far, I've never heard of anyone personally dying by suicide. I understand it's incredibly stigmatized and can bring shame to discuss for those who have lost someone to it but it just seems like such a contrast to what we here about in the media regarding how many people suffer from depression. So many people are said to be depressed but few ever discuss it. Even when I was a teenager, no one in my school had ever killed myself according to my guidance counselor. No one discussed depression in my school even though there's a stereotype that teenagers are always moody and depressed.
It could be more of a matter of how society regards suicide rather than it being "genuine" or not. If you are not suicidal you are considered healthy by others. If you contemplate it you are considered unhealthy by others. All because others just can't understand why someone would make that choice or are frightened by decisions that can't be retracted. If someone decides to end their life but they don't have doubts or discuss it, no one else is going to know the reason. Others are left to speculate. Speculation is an attempt to work the puzzle pieces into place. A "note" may not tell anyone all that much. If someone is considering suicide and they communicate it they are searching....or speculating in a way, for help, for validation, for other options that give relief of some mortal pain, exploring the idea by bouncing it off of others, or are hoping that someone else provides them a key that sways them one way or the other. There are probably many more "unexpected" deaths due to suicide than we realize. The person didn't see any point in sharing their thoughts about it. They had no doubts, took action, and that was it. No one can ask them anything. I'm just not sure there is really a way to tease the two (genuine vs. false) apart.
It could also be an artifact from the human wish to avoid the strange, the difficult, the frightening, to explain away the outliers. We create "norms" to reassure ourselves, to be surrounded by the familiar. Whether it be through psychological, legal, or religious mores, people have this urge to create conformity and controlling others so they are not destructive or threatening to those who do conform.
Please, I am NOT trying to pick a fight with anyone here. I am "speculating".
Possibly its an extreme form of timing. Most of us have a strong sense of wanting freedom of choice, of control over our own lives. How often do people talk about end of life, quality of life, etc? At some extreme point we want to be able to stop living and the power to carry that out. The problem is, when is that point? How does anyone know when they are there? Does society try to dictate that? Sure it does. Because what is the right time for one person isn't the right time for someone else. For one person it is at age 92, bedridden, unable to take any control over anything, mentally spent, etc. For a genuinely suicidal person it may be under very different circumstances. Does that make it wrong?
I have worked around wildlife my entire career and often wonder what the difference is between an animal, suffering and mortally injured, that loses the "will to live" and a human who does the same. OK, OK, most wildlife is very different from a contemplative human...they live in the moment and can't see past their immediate suffering. They also can't imagine an endless span of miserable existence as a human can. At some point the wild creature decides it is finished with its life. Even if its physical problems can be solved, it still refuses to thrive. Rehabbers see it, I've seen it. A person could decide the same thing.
Last edited by Parnassia; 04-18-2018 at 01:01 PM..
Does your city/state have a high suicide rate? It's interesting (well quite grim but you get what I mean), that in Dublin I only know 1 person in my 10 years of living that's killed themselves. Was a sports coach and looked pretty stressed. I didn't find out though until 6 months later because no one spoke of it.
Objectively...I don't know. I live in the state of Missouri, and in all the examples I gave, only one of them was in another state.
Compared to your experience, where practically NO ONE discusses it, and you're unaware of many examples, I'd say the USA has LOTS of examples.
Many years ago, I want to say in the 90's, LOTS of young people were committing suicide. There was quite a rash of it.
Years later, there was the online social media campaign "It Gets Better" encouraging young (and mostly gay) people to just hang in there, and don't let the bullying and teasing get to them, because some day, it WILL get better.
And in St. Charles, MO, a few years ago, we had a young girl...she was just 12 or 13 I think, who was teased mercilessly online. Come to find out, one of her tormentors was actually the mother of another tormentor. Here's a link to that story; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Megan_Meier
So...it happens, and it's talked about somewhat openly I guess.
I kind of wonder if you, in Ireland, don't hear about it much because of the strong Catholic presence. I believe it's considered a mortal sin to commit suicide, so that might add to the feelings of shame that family might feel, or for that matter...maybe it DOES give a suicidal person pause, worrying that their mortal soul would be in danger?
I’m 49 and have contemplated suicide since puberty. Came very close in high school to ending it all. Joining the Navy gave me plenty of opportunities but having a baby placed the burden of responsibility and duty upon me to remain alive. Just before my child support was to end I met my wife. Her health isn’t great and I was staying around to help her. At my lowest I had my suicide planned. I have access to the roof of a tall building. It was at that point that I sought counseling for my depression and PTSD. What came out of those sessions was an issue I didn’t know about. I have Aspergers, a high functioning form of autism. Combination of medication and counseling as well as coping tools (relaxation/meditation apps) I’ve gotten things under control. The downside to the medication is if you stop taking them then over time (a few days or more) the symptoms come back worse. With the medication and the other stuff those thoughts of suicide are just background noise easy to ignore. Stay away from self medicating (alcohol, cigarettes, marijuana, and other narcotic drugs). They can make things worse over time.
I hope no one takes that word 'genuine' the wrong way but from what I've observed, a lot of people who are depressed have suicidal thoughts however wouldn't attempt suicide because they don't want to cause grief to their family. I am suicidal myself along with having homicidal ideation and have been since I was a teenager at around 13 or 14. I didn't think it would get better and so far it hasn't but I'm neutral at this point.
Contrary to mainstream psychology/therapy, I don't see it as an irrational decision and in fact think it can be an honest reaction to the cruelty of human existence. What I've learned VERY well is that this is an unpopular and anomalous opinion to the point where I spend most of my days only frequenting a subreddit on Reddit with people who have decided that suicide will be their ultimate end because most people just don't want to discuss it.
Aside from that, I've never met anyone in my country who has the same conviction of suicide as people on small internet forums. I was in a psych ward voluntarily for 2 months from Jan - March of this year. People were very open and honest there about any type of issue they had. They were many young people who had suicidal ideation but that was just it. A thought and not any planning from the way they spoke of it. I've encountered this brief discussion as well in school where some people shared that they were suicidal but that was just it. No in-depth talk.
The country that I live in, Ireland supposedly has one of the highest suicide rates in Europe but so far, I've never heard of anyone personally dying by suicide. I understand it's incredibly stigmatized and can bring shame to discuss for those who have lost someone to it but it just seems like such a contrast to what we here about in the media regarding how many people suffer from depression. So many people are said to be depressed but few ever discuss it. Even when I was a teenager, no one in my school had ever killed myself according to my guidance counselor. No one discussed depression in my school even though there's a stereotype that teenagers are always moody and depressed.
Been down this road and survived.
Don't listen to your own mind, its trying to kill you, the doctors are sane, you are the patient.
Colorado has a pretty high suicide rate. I attribute it to the fact that we are in one of the most isolated areas of the country. People don't see as many options for themselves. When I lived in Jersey, there were so many options! If you had $50 in your pocket, you could hop a bus and be in a new major city in an hour or so. Colorado isn't like that - it's harder to escape.
A close friend lost two of her family members to suicide last year. It was horrific.
I sometimes see suicide as a logical choice. I went through a bout of severe depression and anxiety last year and it really screwed me up. I couldn't pull myself out of it. Eventually, I decided that if there was no improvement I could not bear to live this way, so I formulated a plan. Here's the thing though - I was giving myself a couple of years for that improvement to occur - I knew I had a lot of other routes to try. I mentioned to two of my closest friends that I had had a "plan" for dealing with how I was feeling but had no intention of doing anything about it for at least a couple years and that it was a last-resort option. They were still horrified and upset, which really made me regret telling them due to the distress it caused them. I didn't think of it as a bad thing to have a plan for ending things if they became truly unbearable. In fact, I think it was a huge motivation for me to get to the source of the problem - it ended up being a severe Vitamin D deficiency that was soon corrected. I knew I would cause my loved ones grief if I ended up choosing that route, so I doubled down getting to the bottom of my misery.
Colorado has a pretty high suicide rate. I attribute it to the fact that we are in one of the most isolated areas of the country. People don't see as many options for themselves. When I lived in Jersey, there were so many options! If you had $50 in your pocket, you could hop a bus and be in a new major city in an hour or so. Colorado isn't like that - it's harder to escape.
I think there is more to the isolation than a lot of people think.
I live in a small town in northeast TN. We are 1.5-2 hours away from any other metro - the near major metro, Charlotte, is over three hours away. Aside from outdoor recreation, which we have in abundance, there isn't a lot to do and nowhere to go. Social services are slim pickings.
If you don't "fit the mold" of Southern Baptist, Republican, straight, and white, it would be easy to get depressed here and find little escape from it.
I think there is more to the isolation than a lot of people think.
I live in a small town in northeast TN. We are 1.5-2 hours away from any other metro - the near major metro, Charlotte, is over three hours away. Aside from outdoor recreation, which we have in abundance, there isn't a lot to do and nowhere to go. Social services are slim pickings.
If you don't "fit the mold" of Southern Baptist, Republican, straight, and white, it would be easy to get depressed here and find little escape from it.
Yes, in Jersey I could always "find my tribe" as it were. With the isolation and the smaller population, I think it's easier to kind of disappear inside yourself.
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