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Just when I think I've unraveled everything, a new idea rises to the surface. So today it occurred to me that my mother may have deliberately manipulated me into walking away from her.
I mean, think about it - I'm a successful adult making almost 6 figures (salary is very important to her), BUT I no longer need her for anything. And at 41 I am unlikely to give her the grandchildren she was always pressuring me to have. I am embarrassingly liberal, not terribly polished or attractive (she is both) and am the only person who (occasionally, embarrassingly) challenges her publicly when she makes blatantly false statements or proclamations. I live far away and only visit my hometown maybe once a year. I'm just not useful to her, frankly and am more of a liability.
My extended family knows the truth, but she doesn't really care about that - she never developed close relationships with her nieces or nephews and is estranged from one of her two sisters. What she really cares about is controlling the narrative among her friends. With me out of the way, she doesn't have to worry any longer about that and she has a whole brand-new dramatic and tragic story to tell her friends about how her daughter inexplicably no longer speaks to her. (This is what she was telling my relatives until I filled in my cousin about the full story - I'm assuming the truth will filter through among my family.)
I've shared the final letter she wrote to me with friends of mine who are mothers. They have been left astounded that any mother would send something like that to a daughter, let alone one she knew was in a serious depression. One or two of them came close to tears. As my cousin (mother of a young daughter) said to me "You can write stuff like that down if you want to vent, but you don't actually SEND it."
So I think she felt like she had to do something essentially unforgivable to get me out of the picture. So after I informed her that I was seriously struggling with depression and anxiety and was fragile and scared,she sent me a letter telling me I was angry and full of hate and that essentially any problems in our relationship were on me and if I was going to persist on this course, I should just "move on."
I dunno. Part of me feels like I'm spinning the same melodramatic BS that my mother does, but the other part of me remembers feeling like I was a terrible daughter for questioning her love for me, despite the fact that she was pretty emotionally abusive.
Yeah, I'm seeing the therapist in a few weeks - we will definitely talk about this. I just wanted to get my thoughts down and maybe get another perspective or two. I can't decide if this is paranoia or a legitimate theory. I mean ultimately, it doesn't matter, and in a way if she did this all deliberately, I don't have to worry about her popping up again maybe. While it was one thing accepting that my mother was done with me (and being kind of relieved by it), the idea that she may have deliberately tanked our relationship because I just wasn't worth the effort is kind of another little gut punch. I'm not sure if that is logical. But I know I"m not being totally unrealistic - I've seen her find excuses to end life-long friendships more than once.
I accept that I'll never know for sure, too. And that this theory could also be interpreted as me trying to shift more blame to her.
I can't say a lot about your relationship, but what I can say with absolute certainty is that your mother didn't really care if the relationship severed when she wrote that letter, or if she did, she was only willing to reconcile with you if you backed off and accepted her version of herself. The things you said in the past that questioned her version of reality publicly, threatened her self-image. When forced to choose between you and herself, she chose herself. That was an error on your part to question her publicly. It's ok, we make errors, we're human. You need to complete the process of separating from your mother mentally, and fully become your own person, and then you won't find her so threatening, and can decide to agree to disagree.
There can be huge gaps in perception of reality between generations, and this is what I see has happened with you and your mother. You experienced very different lives and times. You live on the same planet, but you don't view the world the same at all. It's mind boggling sometimes to realize that that is possible, but it is very possible, and happens all the time.
I am willing to bet that your mother is part of that generation that did not get close to their daughters, kept to themselves, kept people at arm's length with superficial relationships. I understand this, my mother is the same. Combine that with a conservative right wing view that you are at odds with, and the two of you were going to clash.
But here's what I really think. I think you should put aside pondering your relationship with your mother for now. Do not focus on it. Focus on whatever is making you feel depressed, full of anxiety, scared, and fragile. I understand this could be intricately connected to your relationship with your mother, but, as your own person in your early 40's, I would focus on the other aspects and relationships in your life, and your daily living. Your relationship with your mother needs to come second to all your other needs in life. Yes your relationship with your mother is going to come up in therapy, and well it should, and is definitely part of the picture of why you feel fragile. However learning to practice self-care is more important than thinking about her. I know this is hard, especially if you were raised to never question her, to put her needs and wants above yours, and never question her authority when you were a child. Now it is your time, your turn. At this time I think it is best this relationship is severed, even if temporarily, so that you can work on your self-image without any distractions from her. Fill in the voids where you did not complete your independent personality as hers was forced upon you as more important. Gain strength, self-confidence, practice self-care, and then, only if you want to, once you are well and strong, approach your mother again, or, let her go. Once you are stronger you will know which path you want to take with that relationship. At this time it isn't necessary to know the answer to that question.
I'm very glad you realize that therapy is necessary at this point. I too am seeking therapy for family of origin issues which will haunt us forever until we sort them out.
When we make that break from their conservative rigid approach to life and reject it, we need to spend our time and focus with those who help us feel strong and agree with our viewpoints. I suggest you make similar minded friends! Later, when you are strong and no longer feel the anxiety you feel now, you will be able to accept that she grew up in a different world, and that's why you will never see eye to eye on some things. You might however, only if you want, find common ground in some things. It would be a two way street at that point, with respect in both directions. But please focus on yourself, not her until you feel stable, secure, and self-confident.
I can't say a lot about your relationship, but what I can say with absolute certainty is that your mother didn't really care if the relationship severed when she wrote that letter, or if she did, she was only willing to reconcile with you if you backed off and accepted her version of herself. The things you said in the past that questioned her version of reality publicly, threatened her self-image. When forced to choose between you and herself, she chose herself. That was an error on your part to question her publicly. It's ok, we make errors, we're human. You need to complete the process of separating from your mother mentally, and fully become your own person, and then you won't find her so threatening, and can decide to agree to disagree.
There can be huge gaps in perception of reality between generations, and this is what I see has happened with you and your mother. You experienced very different lives and times. You live on the same planet, but you don't view the world the same at all. It's mind boggling sometimes to realize that that is possible, but it is very possible, and happens all the time.
I am willing to bet that your mother is part of that generation that did not get close to their daughters, kept to themselves, kept people at arm's length with superficial relationships. I understand this, my mother is the same. Combine that with a conservative right wing view that you are at odds with, and the two of you were going to clash.
But here's what I really think. I think you should put aside pondering your relationship with your mother for now. Do not focus on it. Focus on whatever is making you feel depressed, full of anxiety, scared, and fragile. I understand this could be intricately connected to your relationship with your mother, but, as your own person in your early 40's, I would focus on the other aspects and relationships in your life, and your daily living. Your relationship with your mother needs to come second to all your other needs in life. Yes your relationship with your mother is going to come up in therapy, and well it should, and is definitely part of the picture of why you feel fragile. However learning to practice self-care is more important than thinking about her. I know this is hard, especially if you were raised to never question her, to put her needs and wants above yours, and never question her authority when you were a child. Now it is your time, your turn. At this time I think it is best this relationship is severed, even if temporarily, so that you can work on your self-image without any distractions from her. Fill in the voids where you did not complete your independent personality as hers was forced upon you as more important. Gain strength, self-confidence, practice self-care, and then, only if you want to, once you are well and strong, approach your mother again, or, let her go. Once you are stronger you will know which path you want to take with that relationship. At this time it isn't necessary to know the answer to that question.
I'm very glad you realize that therapy is necessary at this point. I too am seeking therapy for family of origin issues which will haunt us forever until we sort them out.
When we make that break from their conservative rigid approach to life and reject it, we need to spend our time and focus with those who help us feel strong and agree with our viewpoints. I suggest you make similar minded friends! Later, when you are strong and no longer feel the anxiety you feel now, you will be able to accept that she grew up in a different world, and that's why you will never see eye to eye on some things. You might however, only if you want, find common ground in some things. It would be a two way street at that point, with respect in both directions. But please focus on yourself, not her until you feel stable, secure, and self-confident.
Sorry - I've written about this so much that I forget to include all the details. The anxiety/depression spiral is fixed - it was a Vitamin D deficiency that was fixed by a couple megadoses of vitamins. I take supplements now and am back on my low dose of zoloft that I've had good success with. I've bounced back totally and am really happy with my life.
I was never truly rude about my mother making false statements, but she tends towards hysteria. I'm pretty well-read, and I will point out (in mild tones) when she gets her facts wrong. You have to understand that this is a woman who in the aftermath of 9/11 reported a Pakistani gas station attendant to the police because she believed he looked at her in a hostile manner.
I'm ok with not talking to her - I'm happier with her out of my life. My main concern is that she will make an appearance at an inconvenient time. But if she deliberately severed the relationship, I think that worry is reduced.
But mainly I'm just wondering how paranoid I'm being and if I'm attributing too much malevolence to her.
You may be projecting that confuses things but a good therapist will help you sort through that. I also got a horrible letter from my mother and it was a major turning point. I don’t hate her, or feel bitter or angry, I just let go and stopped playing into the toxic cycle. My mother is and never been a healthy person emotionally and I had to learn to accept that and stop wanting her to be the kind of mother I wanted.
You may be projecting that confuses things but a good therapist will help you sort through that. I also got a horrible letter from my mother and it was a major turning point. I don’t hate her, or feel bitter or angry, I just let go and stopped playing into the toxic cycle. My mother is and never been a healthy person emotionally and I had to learn to accept that and stop wanting her to be the kind of mother I wanted.
Is it weird that part of me just wants to figure out how unloved I was and how disposable she thought I was? Like it can be quantified. She fed me lines like "I love you more than life - you're the most important thing to me!" and stuff like that all the time. But her actions said otherwise and I just didn't see it. I was almost totally snowed and part of me wants to know HOW snowed I was to a very precise degree. What in the last 40 years was real?
I've let go of any desire for a relationship with her. Chatting with a friend last night at dinner, she said we both tend to be very analytical and that's why we tend to get driven nuts in situations with this. She says sometimes we just have to stop trying to analyze crap that can't be analyzed.
But yeah, part of me seriously wonders if she could have just done a cost-benefit analysis and decided that me being out of her life would be a better story than having an occasional visit from a daughter she found more and more emotionally/psychologically threatening and who was a threat to her image. The crap she fed my extended family suggests that she was trying on a story.
JrzDefector. First off, I am sorry about what you have gone through with your mother. My mother was hardly perfect( no one is perfect) and constantly told "tall tales", which I oftentimes had to deal with in public realm. As you know, this is not healthy, nor easy to deal with.
I actually never called her out on it, in public nor private. I believe there were undiagnosed mental health issues behind much of it. I did discuss this with my father and only sibling, but they chose to ignore it. Unlike your mother, my mother's issues often became obvious in the public realm...friends, neighbors and extended family members did see thru her charades. No one said anything, but she became a bit of a social pariah, and by extension..a loner due to this problem. Her later years were a bit sad, to say the least.
It is too bad, because she was a person who could have had a different outcome.
I am happy for you in your pursuit of therapy...you will, hopefully, discover more about yourself, and quite possibly why your mother is the way she is. Do you know much about her upbringing and childhood?
NoMansLand has wrote an excellent response to you!
I can't say a lot about your relationship, but what I can say with absolute certainty is that your mother didn't really care if the relationship severed when she wrote that letter, or if she did, she was only willing to reconcile with you if you backed off and accepted her version of herself. The things you said in the past that questioned her version of reality publicly, threatened her self-image. When forced to choose between you and herself, she chose herself. That was an error on your part to question her publicly. It's ok, we make errors, we're human. You need to complete the process of separating from your mother mentally, and fully become your own person, and then you won't find her so threatening, and can decide to agree to disagree. There can be huge gaps in perception of reality between generations, and this is what I see has happened with you and your mother. You experienced very different lives and times. You live on the same planet, but you don't view the world the same at all. It's mind boggling sometimes to realize that that is possible, but it is very possible, and happens all the time.
I am willing to bet that your mother is part of that generation that did not get close to their daughters, kept to themselves, kept people at arm's length with superficial relationships. I understand this, my mother is the same. Combine that with a conservative right wing view that you are at odds with, and the two of you were going to clash.
But here's what I really think. I think you should put aside pondering your relationship with your mother for now. Do not focus on it. Focus on whatever is making you feel depressed, full of anxiety, scared, and fragile. I understand this could be intricately connected to your relationship with your mother, but, as your own person in your early 40's, I would focus on the other aspects and relationships in your life, and your daily living. Your relationship with your mother needs to come second to all your other needs in life. Yes your relationship with your mother is going to come up in therapy, and well it should, and is definitely part of the picture of why you feel fragile. However learning to practice self-care is more important than thinking about her. I know this is hard, especially if you were raised to never question her, to put her needs and wants above yours, and never question her authority when you were a child. Now it is your time, your turn. At this time I think it is best this relationship is severed, even if temporarily, so that you can work on your self-image without any distractions from her. Fill in the voids where you did not complete your independent personality as hers was forced upon you as more important. Gain strength, self-confidence, practice self-care, and then, only if you want to, once you are well and strong, approach your mother again, or, let her go. Once you are stronger you will know which path you want to take with that relationship. At this time it isn't necessary to know the answer to that question.
I'm very glad you realize that therapy is necessary at this point. I too am seeking therapy for family of origin issues which will haunt us forever until we sort them out.
When we make that break from their conservative rigid approach to life and reject it, we need to spend our time and focus with those who help us feel strong and agree with our viewpoints. I suggest you make similar minded friends! Later, when you are strong and no longer feel the anxiety you feel now, you will be able to accept that she grew up in a different world, and that's why you will never see eye to eye on some things. You might however, only if you want, find common ground in some things. It would be a two way street at that point, with respect in both directions. But please focus on yourself, not her until you feel stable, secure, and self-confident.
Well, they say you learn something new every day, and your posting was that adage for me.
I bolded the section of your posting which hit home with me in particular ( see above) while this is not applicable to the relationship I had with my mother, it does actually resonnate with my dealing with women of a certain age who are indeed troublesome in the workplace and in volunteer/charity work situations.
My perceived issues and perceptions of their "antics" really are based on their generational ways of relating, and their use of social stigmatations in an attempt to control the collective narrative.
While this was the normal ways of their generation, it is causing nothing but chaos and diversion in the precending generations.
They do not see this, or due to a sense of "entitlement based on age" refuse to negotiate any changes. Sorta a "my way, or the highway mentality"......this attitude is a pathway to destruction, IMHO
JrzDefector. First off, I am sorry about what you have gone through with your mother. My mother was hardly perfect( no one is perfect) and constantly told "tall tales", which I oftentimes had to deal with in public realm. As you know, this is not healthy, nor easy to deal with.
I actually never called her out on it, in public nor private. I believe there were undiagnosed mental health issues behind much of it. I did discuss this with my father and only sibling, but they chose to ignore it. Unlike your mother, my mother's issues often became obvious in the public realm...friends, neighbors and extended family members did see thru her charades. No one said anything, but she became a bit of a social pariah, and by extension..a loner due to this problem. Her later years were a bit sad, to say the least.
It is too bad, because she was a person who could have had a different outcome.
I am happy for you in your pursuit of therapy...you will, hopefully, discover more about yourself, and quite possibly why your mother is the way she is. Do you know much about her upbringing and childhood?
NoMansLand has wrote an excellent response to you!
I knew both her parents quite well. There is a long history of mental health issues from my grandmother's side of the family and she was kinda nuts, but not like my mom. We clashed some, but mostly got along ok. She was the one who said things that kind of clued me in about my mother later in life. My grandfather was a good man and a devoted father. My mother's upbringing was lower middle class, and it generally was a pretty comfortable one. Her father even was willing to pay for college for each of his daughters, though only my mother completed her degree.
But yeah, there's a history of messed up wiring there too.
I think your mom's scenario will be similar to the one my mother ends up with. Sooner or later she's going to find herself alone. She doesn't know how to really love people. I feel bad for her, ultimately. I just don't her near me or anything I love (like my dad with dementia).
Just when I think I've unraveled everything, a new idea rises to the surface. So today it occurred to me that my mother may have deliberately manipulated me into walking away from her.
I mean, think about it - I'm a successful adult making almost 6 figures (salary is very important to her), BUT I no longer need her for anything. And at 41 I am unlikely to give her the grandchildren she was always pressuring me to have. I am embarrassingly liberal, not terribly polished or attractive (she is both) and am the only person who (occasionally, embarrassingly) challenges her publicly when she makes blatantly false statements or proclamations. I live far away and only visit my hometown maybe once a year. I'm just not useful to her, frankly and am more of a liability.
My extended family knows the truth, but she doesn't really care about that - she never developed close relationships with her nieces or nephews and is estranged from one of her two sisters. What she really cares about is controlling the narrative among her friends. With me out of the way, she doesn't have to worry any longer about that and she has a whole brand-new dramatic and tragic story to tell her friends about how her daughter inexplicably no longer speaks to her. (This is what she was telling my relatives until I filled in my cousin about the full story - I'm assuming the truth will filter through among my family.)
I've shared the final letter she wrote to me with friends of mine who are mothers. They have been left astounded that any mother would send something like that to a daughter, let alone one she knew was in a serious depression. One or two of them came close to tears. As my cousin (mother of a young daughter) said to me "You can write stuff like that down if you want to vent, but you don't actually SEND it."
So I think she felt like she had to do something essentially unforgivable to get me out of the picture. So after I informed her that I was seriously struggling with depression and anxiety and was fragile and scared,she sent me a letter telling me I was angry and full of hate and that essentially any problems in our relationship were on me and if I was going to persist on this course, I should just "move on."
I dunno. Part of me feels like I'm spinning the same melodramatic BS that my mother does, but the other part of me remembers feeling like I was a terrible daughter for questioning her love for me, despite the fact that she was pretty emotionally abusive.
Yeah, I'm seeing the therapist in a few weeks - we will definitely talk about this. I just wanted to get my thoughts down and maybe get another perspective or two. I can't decide if this is paranoia or a legitimate theory. I mean ultimately, it doesn't matter, and in a way if she did this all deliberately, I don't have to worry about her popping up again maybe. While it was one thing accepting that my mother was done with me (and being kind of relieved by it), the idea that she may have deliberately tanked our relationship because I just wasn't worth the effort is kind of another little gut punch. I'm not sure if that is logical. But I know I"m not being totally unrealistic - I've seen her find excuses to end life-long friendships more than once.
I accept that I'll never know for sure, too. And that this theory could also be interpreted as me trying to shift more blame to her.
I don't see any reason why you're necessarily wrong. I wouldn't say you're paranoid. I'm not saying you're right either, necessarily.
Regarding the part of you that perceives this as melodramatic B.S...you are mostly just venting, I'm guessing. We don't know your mom nearly as well as you do, so I'm thinking the main benefit you'll get of posting this stuff is venting. However, it's understandable that you'd want to vent. Of all the reasons people choose to vent on here, this is one of the more decent ones. You're experiencing some real troubles...and I very much doubt your posts are bothering anyone.
I could easily imagine someone just tanking a lifelong relationship because it wasn't worth the effort to continue it, and then as a finishing blow trying to make it look like it's the other person's fault (which would have been through the letter). Some people can do all that without being self-aware enough to realize they're doing that. I would think that lack of self-awareness being the real culprit would be more likely than your mother engaging in cold, robotic, Machiavellian scheming though, personally. I don't believe many coldly logical, Machiavellian schemers exist. I do think there are lots and lots of people who are very skilled at mental gymnastics though, whose brains kind of trick them into doing things they don't really understand well.
I would suspect you're mom's more likely to be genuinely thinking "I'm the good person (somehow)" than "My daughter is no longer a valuable resource and should be discarded" though.
You might be able to figure out her exact thought process by thinking to yourself "Okay...so no matter how much I have to warp reality to do it, how could I percieve this situation in a way that would paint me, if I were my mother, as the good person?"
If I had to guess, I'd assume you're mom found some way to perceive you as the toxic one she's escaping from...and I don't think it would make much of a difference if 100% of everything was her fault. The thing about people who are self-centered enough to cause all the problems, is they're also often self-centered enough to not perceive themselves as the cause of the problems.
So...I don't know if I actually provided any useful input.
I haven't seen all your posts describing your mother. I know you've described her as a narcissist. I've seen a couple other posts relating to your mom, but I don't remember much about them.
Sorry - I've written about this so much that I forget to include all the details. The anxiety/depression spiral is fixed - it was a Vitamin D deficiency that was fixed by a couple megadoses of vitamins. I take supplements now and am back on my low dose of zoloft that I've had good success with. I've bounced back totally and am really happy with my life.
I was never truly rude about my mother making false statements, but she tends towards hysteria. I'm pretty well-read, and I will point out (in mild tones) when she gets her facts wrong. You have to understand that this is a woman who in the aftermath of 9/11 reported a Pakistani gas station attendant to the police because she believed he looked at her in a hostile manner.
I'm ok with not talking to her - I'm happier with her out of my life. My main concern is that she will make an appearance at an inconvenient time. But if she deliberately severed the relationship, I think that worry is reduced.
But mainly I'm just wondering how paranoid I'm being and if I'm attributing too much malevolence to her.
Jrz - Does your mother enrich your life at all for her being in it? If she would to die tomorrow would you miss her? Seems to me, from what you have mentioned in other posts also, that she is a narcissist. If she was deliberately trying to start this estrangement I would get her out of my life and never look back. She will be the one with regrets when she is on her death bed. I wouldn't be surprised if then she turns to you.
Some people are born to wonderful parents and the rest of us have to try and live with the damage our parents/caretakers did to us, either physically, mentally, emotionally or all three. Be well.
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Brilliant Posting!
