Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yeah, in my last session with my therapist, I was venting quite a bit, and much of that was suicide-related--mostly a defense of the act in the abstract, but before I let myself get carried away down that particular path, I had to remind myself essentially that anything I said could theoretically be used against me...so I kept it mostly confined to defending the act 'in theory', although I did go as far as to say that if I were to ever choose to kill myself, my family and others who'd be negatively impacted would just have to overcome their own selfish opposition to the act, as it's cruel to mandate the continuation of suffering. My comments were definitely alarming her a bit, but I think I went about as far as I could without making her think I was suicidal (which I wasn't, but I felt at the time like I was deteriorating, and it wouldn't have been much of a 'decline' from how I felt that day to feeling as though I'd want to die). So, if you want to talk about problems with the status quo and the way people think about the issue of suicide...I'd argue that the biggest problem is that euthanasia is not legal and freely available for any adult who might want it.
Just talking about suicide in general or about "suicidal thoughts" is not enough to get you "locked up". You have to be an IMMINENT danger to yourself (or others, in terms of being homicidal). It's not easy to get locked up, at least if you are white, seriously. I would not be afraid to talk to a therapist about feeling suicidal. They'll do an assessment of how deeply you are considering it and over what period of time and will counsel you.
It's not like when you're on a plane and you say "bomb" in any context and you're thrown off the plane - it just doesn't work like that at all.
You can get it on demand in the EU and 90% of people are not doing it.
That's not true. I was on a forum where people were trying to escape from the internal harm
a medical issue with no cure was causing them. The guidelines in the EU are strict and narrow. I watched a guy post the letter of rejection he got after he applied. Then his downward spiral. He disappeared off
the forum.
Is this correct? I am kind of surprised. I thought suicide hotlines were set up so that people who were having such thoughts would have someone to talk to. Are you sure about this?
Quote:
WILL THE POLICE GET CALLED IF I'M SUICIDAL AND CALL A SUICIDE HOTLINE?
This is a tricky question and the answer is neither "yes" nor "no." In the vast majority of cases, no police (or other authority) involvement is required and in the cases where emergency help is needed, suicide hotline staff will make every attempt to gain permission to send them. The goal of a suicide hotline is to help you with your personal crisis and no one-size-fits-all solution is possible.
That being said, if you are actively suicidal and threatening to imminently hurt yourself, it is possible that emergency personnel may be called without your permission. While no one likes that scenario, it truly is the best, lifesaving thing an operator can do in a small number of cases.
This is kind of obvious, but one reason people who are having suicidal ideation don't tell their therapists about it (and hence, perhaps get some support) is that therapists are mandated reporters - meaning they have to report that a patient is suicidal - which in most cases might result in a 3 day hold (5150).
So smart people don't tell their therapists, because they don't want to be locked up for three days.
On the other hand, suicidal people MAY call into suicidal hotlines and say they are suicidal. These hotlines for some reason are not mandatory reporters.
Much of a conflict?
These things aren't very well thought out.
People SHOULD be able to confide that they are FEELING suicidal to their therapists - but honestly, who would do that given the current rules?
So the net result is that they don't get to talk about their ideation - don't get to process it - so no relief.
And therapists hate to deal with this issue anyway.
Despite all of the PSAs saying that friends or relatives of people who are suicidal should remove all sharp objects from their home, should not leave the person alone, etc. - that assumes that people are not responsible for their own lives - why should a relative have to become responsible? It isn't even possible that you could stop someone hell bent on killing themselves.
So a few little problems with the way things are right now and the way people think about the problem.
I think you're correct. By introducing politics into a patient/caretaker relationship, it's not just suicide that's affected. Anyone that may pose a threat, or may feel threatened, especially at home, forces the care provider into a situation that quickly escalates beyond the control of the physician or the person seeking counsel. Sometimes people are just confused and need to talk things through.
It basically leaves those patients stranded...the ones that need the most help, if they aren't ready for some full blown situational change.
A worthy topic. Hopefully the fee-setters will back off.
I don't know if I agree with you, but I was thinking about euthanasia and thinking that the way we use the term is incorrect. Animals don't know or consent to us killing them - we "do it for them," but we're really murdering them (albeit in a "nice" way).
I think if euthanasia was available to anyone at anytime, 90% of the population would decrease because everybody has despondent times. I think it makes more sense to think "we are here for a reason" and "I have to get through this." (But I know that is my spiritual and philosophical belief.)
I would hate it if most of my family decided they wanted to exit (or any of them). It's very painful for family members to handle and leaves a lot of scars (which I think is bad karma).
Yeah, I definitely don't believe in 'karma' or that we're 'here for a reason'. I mean, from a purely physical perspective I do, in that everything is the product of some prior set of universal circumstances, but not in a sentimental/spiritual sense. I'm an existential nihilist with zero spiritual beliefs. That said, I often have told myself some variant of the 'I have to get through this', out of pride and a sense of duty to the people who care about me. If you get low enough, though, I can say from experience that it can be very difficult to muster concern for continued survival or the concerns of well-meaning others; in such a condition, the 'well-meaning others' become just another group of people who frustratingly cannot relate to what you're enduring.
Honestly with the dominance of secularism/rationalism/materialism, and the rejection of (and complete ignorance of) religion, it's really no surprise that people kill themselves so casually. What is the big deal? There's nothing else to the world that isn't physically observable. After you die, you are merely absorbed into nothingness. Yeah your family might miss you for the 30 years you had left. But what's 30 years in comparison to all history? And what's all history compared to when the sun finally explodes and everyone dies anyway? Nothing really matters. "Life is absurd" after all.
You might be satirizing this POV, but that's certainly my outlook on life in the grand scheme.
Yeah, in my last session with my therapist, I was venting quite a bit, and much of that was suicide-related--mostly a defense of the act in the abstract, but before I let myself get carried away down that particular path, I had to remind myself essentially that anything I said could theoretically be used against me...so I kept it mostly confined to defending the act 'in theory', although I did go as far as to say that if I were to ever choose to kill myself, my family and others who'd be negatively impacted would just have to overcome their own selfish opposition to the act, as it's cruel to mandate the continuation of suffering. My comments were definitely alarming her a bit, but I think I went about as far as I could without making her think I was suicidal (which I wasn't, but I felt at the time like I was deteriorating, and it wouldn't have been much of a 'decline' from how I felt that day to feeling as though I'd want to die). So, if you want to talk about problems with the status quo and the way people think about the issue of suicide...I'd argue that the biggest problem is that euthanasia is not legal and freely available for any adult who might want it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz
Concur. The US is a cultural wasteland.
You sound like an over-dramatizing, self-obsessed drama queen attention-seeker.
Try to focus on doing interesting things in your life, being productive in your waking hours, reading for knowledge, and thinking of ideas other than yourself and what you consider your problems to be.
I think in most communities, therapists are readily available and I believe the cost is well worth it. If someone cannot afford the $60 to $150 per hour or whatever the charge is in your area, then there are low cost or free city, county or state options.
I think you can even get support online (don't know how good it is, but it is, at least, available).
A suicide crisis line should be able to refer you to resources or you can google "mental health resources" in your city or county.
I think you can also dial 211 for that kind of info.
Suicide hotlines are worthless, I'm sorry.
First they give you positive reinforcement "Mary, I think it's wonderful that you had the strength to call today".
Then they go down their checklist.
Do you feel suicidal at this moment?
Have you ever attempted suicide before?
Do you have a definite plan?
Then then offer you advice.
You need to take care of YOU. Tell me something that really makes you happy, something that you really enjoy doing?
Do you think you could find something to do tonight or tomorrow that you really enjoy doing?
You have to make your happiness a priority.
What were you doing the last time you felt happy?
Finally, they recommend a mental/behavorial health clinic that will gladly prescribe mood altering drugs that will turn you into an emotionless zombie.
Just talking about suicide in general or about "suicidal thoughts" is not enough to get you "locked up". You have to be an IMMINENT danger to yourself (or others, in terms of being homicidal). It's not easy to get locked up, at least if you are white, seriously. I would not be afraid to talk to a therapist about feeling suicidal. They'll do an assessment of how deeply you are considering it and over what period of time and will counsel you.
It's not like when you're on a plane and you say "bomb" in any context and you're thrown off the plane - it just doesn't work like that at all.
Makes sense, but who's really to say what constitutes 'imminent danger'? I'd like to see the assessment...are there any studies about the diagnostic effectiveness of the 'imminent danger' assessment? I'd have to think there are...maybe I'll google later. Like someone else mentioned about the rhetoric that's been bandied about re: mass shooters...I think it's a lot easier said than done to predict the future behavior of others, mentally 'ill' or not.
You sound like an over-dramatizing, self-obsessed drama queen attention-seeker.
Try to focus on doing interesting things in your life, being productive in your waking hours, reading for knowledge, and thinking of ideas other than yourself and what you consider your problems to be.
Lol, thanks for the unsolicited advice. I read for knowledge every day of my existence (assuming non-debilitating depression) and would stack up my intellect against almost anyone's. Life is ultimately pretty uninteresting, however, and if it weren't for alcohol I'd be entirely miserable. Most of my friends, all of whom are at least somewhat intelligent, feel pretty much the same way.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
