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Old 08-20-2018, 06:13 PM
 
8,215 posts, read 3,413,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean1the1 View Post
I agree that they're people that are bullies, but I also feel as if people get extremely defensive about things that they shouldn't be defensive about. In the military not taking things personally goes a long way.
Yes, of course, it is possible to be over sensitive and make a big deal out of every micro aggression.

We all commit micro aggressions sometimes without realizing it, and they should be ignored and over-looked. But if someone continues hammering you with one micro aggression after another, there is probably some hostility going on. And if there are also macro aggressions, then it could be genuine bullying.

I got some micro aggressions from Mr. B right at the beginning, when I first met him. He can be very nice, and I thought we got along so well, we became friends instantly.

But then the first micro aggression occurred. Mr. B was complaining about his step daughter, who he doesn't like. He said "She is over 30 years old and still single with no kids. There has to be something wrong with her."

That might seem like a harmless statement. However, I am 65 years old and single with no kids. So is there something wrong with me? I count that as insensitive at best, and maybe slightly hostile.

But Mr. B also did outright bullying. I couldn't really predict what would make him angry. I gradually started avoiding him more and more, because of that. But my avoiding him made his anger worse.
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Old 08-20-2018, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Southern California
29,267 posts, read 16,725,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean1the1 View Post
I agree that they're people that are bullies, but I also feel as if people get extremely defensive about things that they shouldn't be defensive about. In the military not taking things personally goes a long way.
Being in the military is another world and one has to be prepared to kill.
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 682,105 times
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It's hard to define these things, but bullying is real.

In my opinion, bullying is too often a synonym for a lack of superficial courtesy.

Courtesy counts, but many bullying campaigns are designed and executed behind closed doors.

I worked at a school once where a guidance counselor was in charge of the anti-bullying campaign among students. She was courteous and professional in all superficial interactions in public. In private, she was a flat-out bully, by far the most destructive adult personality in the building.

I'm pretty sure if asked that she would have defined bullying as raised voices, "cut-downs," and that sort of thing. She would have drawn a line there. But there was no parallel in the organization, in destructive intent or effect, to the deeply personal and secret campaigns she organized against staff.

Kids see that stuff, and know what's going on. Adults talk as if kids aren't there, knowing full well they are. It's hard to stop student bullying, when students see adults bullying each other every day. Kids imitate adults. It's a primate-type thing to do. The day adults stop bullying each other will be the day kids stop.
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:41 PM
 
8,215 posts, read 3,413,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
It's hard to define these things, but bullying is real.

In my opinion, bullying is too often a synonym for a lack of superficial courtesy.

Courtesy counts, but many bullying campaigns are designed and executed behind closed doors.

I worked at a school once where a guidance counselor was in charge of the anti-bullying campaign among students. She was courteous and professional in all superficial interactions in public. In private, she was a flat-out bully, by far the most destructive adult personality in the building.

I'm pretty sure if asked that she would have defined bullying as raised voices, "cut-downs," and that sort of thing. She would have drawn a line there. But there was no parallel in the organization, in destructive intent or effect, to the deeply personal and secret campaigns she organized against staff.

Kids see that stuff, and know what's going on. Adults talk as if kids aren't there, knowing full well they are. It's hard to stop student bullying, when students see adults bullying each other every day. Kids imitate adults. It's a primate-type thing to do. The day adults stop bullying each other will be the day kids stop.
There will always be some degree of bullying. In personality research, they have found that people differ on the trait called "agreeableness." The more agreeable people are the "nice guys" who may not be the most successful or happy. The less agreeable are more likely to get their way and succeed.

Everyone should try to find a balanced compromise. We have to be nice and polite to fit in with others, but if we're too nice we get stepped on.

It will never be possible to eradicate bullying. If you suppress the overt forms, it will rise up in more subtle ways. Micro aggressions are an example -- we all do them, they are inevitable, but you can hammer someone with relentless micro aggressions, and then it's hostile bullying.

Parents and teachers should prevent bigger kids from terrorizing smaller kids. It's probably just natural for this to happen, but parents and teachers should protect the weaker kids from being tormented. In the past, they didn't seem to care and so many kids were harmed by it.

But for adults, I don't know if there is any way to regulate bullying. I am no longer involved with my recent bully, Mr. B. I wonder if he will find a new target, or what will happen.

I guess I learned a couple of lessons from this experience. One thing I learned was that all the bullying I received in my life was probably not my imagination. This time I had a witness, and that made a big difference. Mr. W's feelings about Mr. B were much stronger than mine. He thought Mr. B was literally scary.

And I learned that bullies/sociopaths can be nice and can suck you in. The 3 bullies I experienced at jobs were all charismatic and confident. The bosses trusted and even loved them.

Mr. B became my good friend immediately. We worked on a project (music) we both cared about. But he wanted to control me, and didn't like it if I played music with anyone except him.

As time went on, I spent more time playing music without him, because I wanted to be away from his anger. And that made him more angry, so it became a vicious cycle I guess.

I started to see that he was very self-centered and egotistical.

But I am good at making excuses for people. I am never sure exactly what is "normal."

Having Mr. W as a witness made all the difference. Soon after he joined us, he saw Mr. B get crazy angry at me. He said "There is definitely something wrong with that guy."

In recent months, Mr. W was always there when I was with Mr. B, so Mr. W saw all our interactions. And he was CCed on all email. He saw everything, and there was not one single thing that he felt I did wrong. And I asked him, several times, to please tell me if he thought I did anything at all to make Mr. B angry. No, he never did.

Mr. W said Mr. B was trying to control me with anger and lies.

If Mr. B were more clever, he would have only bullied me privately. But maybe he never expected Mr. W and me to communicate with each other.

So now I know that bullying can be real, and can come entirely from one side. I'm pretty sure, anyway. Now I have to see if I can prevent it happening again.

Soon after I met Mr. B, a woman I know warned me about him. I asked why, and she said it was just the way he looked at me. It was so vague, I didn't believe her. Well I guess she has better intuition than I have and she immediately saw right through him.
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Old 08-20-2018, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Middle America
11,061 posts, read 7,132,082 times
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Bullies and punks can be found at all ages and walks of life.
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Old 08-20-2018, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
11,583 posts, read 6,728,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
Online forums are heaven for bullies.
YES, they are here on CD!!
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Old 08-21-2018, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Texas
13,480 posts, read 8,369,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post

Recently, for the first time in my life, I had ongoing bullying and I had a witness. The 3 of us were collaborating on something and really wanted it to work. But Mr. B had repeated episodes of anger, directed mostly at me. I wondered if I caused it somehow. I tried hard to ignore it. It was over little things, sometimes over nothing. I had been collaborating with Mr. B for 2 years, and Mr. W joined us 6 months ago.
.
This is why I'm glad I work from home. I saw situations like this in the workplace for years and also dealt with a workplace bully for one year. They almost need to have someone to bully to justify their position and ego. When someone has episodes of anger, that should be a red flag to an employer that the person is unstable, but often, employers don't notice or care.
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Old 08-21-2018, 11:16 AM
 
2,117 posts, read 1,456,167 times
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Look up narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) in the workplace and see if Mr. B fits any of the characteristics. If not, try borderline personality disorder.
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Old 08-21-2018, 11:56 AM
 
8,215 posts, read 3,413,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyshow View Post
Look up narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) in the workplace and see if Mr. B fits any of the characteristics. If not, try borderline personality disorder.
I think he might tend towards sociopath. Low on agreeableness and empathy.
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Old 08-21-2018, 12:00 PM
 
8,215 posts, read 3,413,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
This is why I'm glad I work from home. I saw situations like this in the workplace for years and also dealt with a workplace bully for one year. They almost need to have someone to bully to justify their position and ego. When someone has episodes of anger, that should be a red flag to an employer that the person is unstable, but often, employers don't notice or care.
Some of the bullies I had at workplaces were subtle -- smiling and friendly backstabbers. But there was one who was overtly angry. He had a rough way of talking to most people, not just me. He looked down at almost everyone, because he considered himself very intelligent. He kept getting promoted until he became a director. The high ups saw him as a smart person who got things done. They didn't care how rude and angry his personality was.
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