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When I was an educational assistant in an elementary school some years ago, there was a big banner in the hallway that asked, "How many lies can you tell before you are a liar?" That has always stayed with me.
Imo, the answer is ZERO, although I do tend to give younger people a pass unless they lie frequently and only for selfish reasons. I learned years ago that "flat-out" lying offers no benefit to me and not to any other person, either.
However, that being said, I will still sometimes give a polite evasion instead of lying, as I won't tell a bluntly honest TOTAL truth if I think that it would greatly hurt someone.
But even things such as nodding your head to show you are listening when you really aren't, or feigning interest in a boring conversation, or simply altering your persona/face to show what you feel you should show in a given social situation may, in fact, be forms of lying and/or deception. Not always mind you, but in some cases it probably is. I still say that minor forms of deception are necessary for smooth social functioning, and that most of us are likely far more deceptive than we admit to being. Because the people who claim to "never lie" obviously don't count the minor deceptions and half-truths and evasions that we all employ as a matter of being polite and courteous.
This is not, however, an indictment against anyone or even humans in general -- it's simply highlighting that in order to function appropriately and successfully in the social world, we humans have to wear a variety of masks and personas that are not always perfectly aligned with how we are feeling or what we are thinking in a given situation. We are all excellent actors in other words, and we couldn't act very well if we were always honest and told or acted on the truth all the time -- because then our acts would be blown, our covers removed.
A perfect example is in the dating/sexual arena:
dating revolves around and is fueled by sex (or sexual desire). Yet how often does one person approach another person and blatantly state: "Hi, I'm so and so. I'm talking to you because I find you sexually attractive and would like to get to know you better in the hopes of possibly entering into a sexual relationship with you at some point!"
Now, in many cases, the above statement would be completely true, and in fact, I bet it's the main reason as to why many guys approach ladies in the first place. But how often do you think a guy would actually say something like that to a lady? Probably not often. Instead, the guy asking for a date or using small talk in order to break the ice in order to be able to ask for a date is not being completely honest in his approach -- he's using pretense to make the initial connection and not drawing attention to what is really motivating him to make the approach in the first place: that being sexual interest or sexual attraction.
Everyone lies, that is true. It is only wrong when that lie has the potential to defraud someone of money, their health, generally any lie that would hurt someone. I don't have a problem with lying to not hurt someone's feelings or to protect someone as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.
Another example is when someone has information they cannot share either because they don't engage in gossip or were asked to keep a confidence. They're asked if they know anything about X and they say they do not.
People do that without considering it a lie - but it's a lie.
Strangely thru therapy , turns out many a folk involved in our upbringing who 'spoke their truth ' were actually lieing. Take the ,'johnny you are nothing but trouble!'.
Now rationale would intercede and ask...in what way . But to a kid they believe the lie.
So next time you think your speaking your 'truth' . Check yourself.
I've lied and will concede to that . The question though becomes ...was that a true statement when I said it. ? And later I had to update my data .
Another example is when someone has information they cannot share either because ...
People do that without considering it a lie - but it's a lie.
For most of my working career, I held fairly high security clearances. On a daily basis I handled information that is classified, and I was only able to discuss it with other men of the same clearance levels. If you were not cleared to know the information, then we could not discuss it in your presence. My job was largely about holding secrets.
One of my clearances put me into a program called PRP [the Personnel Reliability Program], any debts that I held had to be reviewed each year with the Security Manager to verify if I had become 'vulnerable'.
My personnel file when you opened it the first thing on top was a bright pink sheet stating that I was in PRP.
Being in the PRP restricted what kinds of medications a doctor could give me. I was not allowed to associate with specific kinds of people. Even my dental procedures had to have another person in the PRP to be present before a dentist could work on me.
Everyone working within that kind of environment learns to be able to compartmentalize, so we never run the risk of divulging secrets.
Toward the end of my career, it got to bothering me more and more, some of the secrets that I was expected to hold. So much so that the stress caused me to have a duodenal ulcer. I was very much disenfranchised with our government doing the evil that it does.
I served as the Protestant Lay-Leader on two different subs. I ran the worship services while underwater. I performed weddings, funerals, and at times other men came to me with their issues, I gave out the best advice that I could at the time, and I had to keep my mouth shut. To keep their confidence.
For most of my life, I have been entrusted with the secrets of other men and I was expected to keep those secrets.
For most of my working career, I held fairly high security clearances. On a daily basis I handled information that is classified, and I was only able to discuss it with other men of the same clearance levels. If you were not cleared to know the information, then we could not discuss it in your presence. My job was largely about holding secrets.
One of my clearances put me into a program called PRP [the Personnel Reliability Program], any debts that I held had to be reviewed each year with the Security Manager to verify if I had become 'vulnerable'.
My personnel file when you opened it the first thing on top was a bright pink sheet stating that I was in PRP.
Being in the PRP restricted what kinds of medications a doctor could give me. I was not allowed to associate with specific kinds of people. Even my dental procedures had to have another person in the PRP to be present before a dentist could work on me.
Everyone working within that kind of environment learns to be able to compartmentalize, so we never run the risk of divulging secrets.
Toward the end of my career, it got to bothering me more and more, some of the secrets that I was expected to hold. So much so that the stress caused me to have a duodenal ulcer. I was very much disenfranchised with our government doing the evil that it does.
I served as the Protestant Lay-Leader on two different subs. I ran the worship services while underwater. I performed weddings, funerals, and at times other men came to me with their issues, I gave out the best advice that I could at the time, and I had to keep my mouth shut. To keep their confidence.
For most of my life, I have been entrusted with the secrets of other men and I was expected to keep those secrets.
I do not see how that is lying.
Since you've quoted me, I'm assuming that your situation was as I laid it out - you were asked for information and you lied and said you didn't know.
You're talking about withholding information - something also thought of as a lie depending on the circumstances.
But that's not the scenario I laid out, so it has no relevance to what I've posted.
My apology.
I thought you said:
"Another example is when someone has information they cannot share either because they don't engage in gossip or were asked to keep a confidence."
You are justifying lies
Ok so you have broken a one of 10 commandments the others will come much easier once you get in some practice with this one
First you lie to yourself til you believe it then you go bury other people and tell your self you are not so bad
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