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Not everything is belief. Edward Snowden sallies out of his condominium for a walk. Eight people follow him. He talks to his therapist that night. "I don't like being followed." She smiles. "Let's look at your limiting belief you're being followed."
But he was followed. That's fact, not belief. He can choose to let being followed bother him, or not. That's treatable. But to treat the facts as subjective belief is gaslighting. It seems that for some therapists, verifiable, uncomfortable facts are beliefs the patient holds, never facts.
So has anyone successfully changed a longstanding belief about themselves or other people or the way the world works? If so, I'd appreciate hearing about your experience, or if you've struggled like I have, I'm curious about that too. Thanks in advance.
On the surface, you have Opinions. Opinions are readily changeable.
Under that, you have Automatic Beliefs. You see them all over this forum. They can be changed, but they're a little harder to do.
Below that are your Core Beliefs. Those are extremely difficult to alter.
At the bottom are Schema. Schema are a series of Core Beliefs that are interconnected. Could be anywhere from 3 to 18 or more Core Beliefs that are interconnected to create a Schema.
Schema Theory was developed by Jeffrey Young, and he defines Schemas as deeply rooted cognitive structures and beliefs that help define a person's identity in relationship to others, or to the world around them.
Part of the therapy involves untangling the Core Beliefs that create a certain Schema, and you can have multiple Schema, it's perfectly normal and in fact everyone does, because Schema more or less define who we are.
Altering Core Beliefs is possible, but it takes a lot of work. A lot of work.
It will not happen in a day, or a week, a month or even years. Not intending to scare you, but it could take decades (as it did in my situation).
I recently attended a concert for the first time in 26 years. I didn't make it all the way through, but I lasted far longer than I thought I would, and I fared far better than the last time, when I had to be escorted out and didn't even know where I was (it's a little more difficult for those with PTSD than those without).
I can do more things than I used to be able to do, but still not as much as I used to. I would like to play out again. I like playing music and being on stage, but realistically, that's probably not going to happen any time soon, but maybe with more work, I'll be able to do that again in a few years.
Everyone is different, so if CBT isn't working for you then try DBT, and sometimes you need to apply both to different facets, or both to a single facet to be effective.
I think the key is finding what works for you, and then sticking with it until you achieve the results you want.
Sometimes it helps to have different perspectives, and if you haven't already, an easy read is Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. Sometimes to move beyond, you have engage what's known as "radical acceptance." It's not an easy thing to do, but if you can, it might help immensely.
Nobody changes someone else's core beliefs. What you do instead is try to give that person as much unbiased information you can to allow them to make the decision to change their core belief on their own.
Certainly. I have definitely had times (years) in my life where I thought I was a POS and years where I thought I was a rather decent human being. I think that is a core belief.
I have also changed from thinking people are basically evil and selfish to thinking people are basically good and selfless. And backj.
OP, can you give us one of your limiting beliefs in a short sentence without embellishment?
Then, why do you resist the idea that this isn't true for you?
I appreciate the responses so far. For background, I'm 61, I've been in therapy before, and I'm somewhat familiar with CBT, and mindfulness based therapies like DBT and ACT.
In response to the quote above from charlygal, two beliefs come to mind, and interact.
1.' I'm not safe.
2. The world has little use or respect for older people.
Not safe isn't about people threatening me. It's about me not trusting my ability to make or maintain connections to people. Could also be "I'm not good enough". This doesn't often cause crises, but it's a low level ache that's just about worn me out. I think this is pretty subjective.
The second belief seems beyond mere perception; I'd argue that it's empirically valid.
I guess a third belief is that I need to feel fairly securely connected to people to feel safe or content.
Not everything is belief. Edward Snowden sallies out of his condominium for a walk. Eight people follow him. He talks to his therapist that night. "I don't like being followed." She smiles. "Let's look at your limiting belief you're being followed."
But he was followed. That's fact, not belief. He can choose to let being followed bother him, or not. That's treatable. But to treat the facts as subjective belief is gaslighting. It seems that for some therapists, verifiable, uncomfortable facts are beliefs the patient holds, never facts.
And while I'm going with this thread turning confessional, this comment is close to how I feel and where I was coming from when I started it. I think I worked with that therapist I believe in the damage self fulfilling prophecies can do, but I also believe we're often loathe to accept that effort might not solve every problem. Some prophecies, even sad ones, are realistic assessments.
Not everything is belief. Edward Snowden sallies out of his condominium for a walk. Eight people follow him. He talks to his therapist that night. "I don't like being followed." She smiles. "Let's look at your limiting belief you're being followed."
But he was followed. That's fact, not belief. He can choose to let being followed bother him, or not. That's treatable. But to treat the facts as subjective belief is gaslighting. It seems that for some therapists, verifiable, uncomfortable facts are beliefs the patient holds, never facts.
Did she say he wasn't being followed? The way I understood it is she's saying his belief about being followed is limiting him in some way.
I appreciate the responses so far. For background, I'm 61, I've been in therapy before, and I'm somewhat familiar with CBT, and mindfulness based therapies like DBT and ACT.
In response to the quote above from charlygal, two beliefs come to mind, and interact.
1.' I'm not safe.
2. The world has little use or respect for older people.
Not safe isn't about people threatening me. It's about me not trusting my ability to make or maintain connections to people. Could also be "I'm not good enough". This doesn't often cause crises, but it's a low level ache that's just about worn me out. I think this is pretty subjective.
The second belief seems beyond mere perception; I'd argue that it's empirically valid.
I guess a third belief is that I need to feel fairly securely connected to people to feel safe or content.
While no one is threatening you, it is interesting you chose to say that you are not safe. It would indicate that you are afraid. Are you scared?
While no one is threatening you, it is interesting you chose to say that you are not safe. It would indicate that you are afraid. Are you scared?
I think. I guess I'm afraid that I'm not able to keep myself safe emotionally, because I need people and yet I can't make or maintain connections to people. And this has very much been my experience, so I struggle to know how not to believe that my reality means something significant. That it's real, and how do I not believe what's real?
I think. I guess I'm afraid that I'm not able to keep myself safe emotionally, because I need people and yet I can't make or maintain connections to people. And this has very much been my experience, so I struggle to know how not to believe that my reality means something significant. That it's real, and how do I not believe what's real?
I understand physical safety. What do you mean by emotional safety? How are you unsafe if you can't connect with people? Why can't you connect to people?
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I believe in the damage self fulfilling prophecies can do, but I also believe we're often loathe to accept that effort might not solve every problem. Some prophecies, even sad ones, are realistic assessments.
