Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Maybe you should take it up with the male 8s who fuel the egos of 3s online. What's up with that anyway?
The women did not cause this. It was men who started online dating sites and Instagram and Tinder and men who respond to women on them. Let's stop blaming women when it is men who created this screwed up social scene. Look at your techie overlords, they aren't doing so badly are they? At the expense of average men - incels should be screaming about them, not the women who use their sites.
There are a few things about this, IMO.
1. The dudes who believe they're 8s may not be. I've seen some guys who say they're "catches" and...yeah.
2. The "3" women may actually be pretty cute. Some guys, especially angry guys, like to neg like crazy. They still think, deep down, that it's going to work and it becomes a habit.
3. Yes, guys spray their swipes here, there and everywhere, so women may see a lot of that, or they may get a lot of "'sups?" but those aren't necessarily followed up on. Being "approached" (in this spammy way) definitely does not have to equal a date or potential date, so it's still not a huge number of choices for most women. That means these women can't be getting inflated egos, since they're lukewarmly looked up, then literally ignored afterward.
4. Yes, if guys stopped the "throw more spaghetti at the wall" approach, things might be better for everyone. Both the men, and the women. So why don't they? I don't know.
5. The only guys incels scream at are the "Chads," the overwhelming minority that's largely mythical anyway. They *can't* blame guys...because that would mean "the program" or the Red Pill or the Youtube guru isn't right, and further, that means these dudes never WILL "close with 9s" like they've been promised. That idea is too devastating, so...blame the woman.
What do you think? How much do you feel it would help this group? And do you think it would help long-term, if what people are saying about these men reacting to past hurts and damage is true?
I'm sure they've scoped out this book and more, personally. Along with a zillion Youtube videos. And they're still pretty pizzed.
Oh okay, it's just I use to be involuntarily celibate myself, and nothing was working, until I got the books which helped a lot. So I thought maybe since it worked for me, that it could work for others.
But if it's true that a lot of these guys refuse to go for a woman that is beneath an 'absolute hottie', how do they manage to hold out for some long based on principle? Wouldn't most of them cave eventually and say 'to heck with it, I'm loosing my virginity to a 3'?
Oh okay, it's just I use to be involuntarily celibate myself, and nothing was working, until I got the books which helped a lot. So I thought maybe since it worked for me, that it could work for others.
But if it's true that a lot of these guys refuse to go for a woman that is beneath an 'absolute hottie', how do they manage to hold out for some long based on principle? Wouldn't most of them cave eventually and say 'to heck with it, I'm loosing my virginity to a 3'?
But did it work for you? Don't you still require very specific actions on the girl's part, plus medications, to get aroused? Don't you think this has always been the larger problem, not that you "couldn't get" dates but then a book helped you, but rather that you felt nothing when in the presence of a woman who did not have your fetishes? And aren't you still having problems, taking the pills, not really trusting your girlfriend, she cries, etc.? Isn't it disingenuous to tell guys they just need to read this book and it will help them, in light of all this?
I am NOT trying to call you out or embarrass you, but the way you're presenting this isn't going to help the average guy. Your situation is NOT typical by a long shot and it is you who have always been severely overly-picky and demanding of exact situations and exact actions to even become mildly stimulated. Yet you're presenting this as if you were the average guy who just hadn't really learned the skills yet to communicate with women. This rewriting of history, at least according to the things you've said here even up to the present day, only feeds the incel flames of "see? You can be a perfectly average, nice guy but women just SHUN you...let's get even angrier."
You're not helping them, you're not helping non-incel-identifying but lonely guys, and you're definitely not helping to bridge the divide that keeps some dudes so infuriated with women, society, anything and everything but themselves. It's so frustrating to watch this because so many of us have said this from the beginning - that incels present things in a warped way in order to "prove" it's women/society who are the problem - yet here you are doing it right in front of people you've discussed this with for years.
New guys reading this won't know that, though. It's 100% disingenuous and your hopping on the "nice guys just can't get laid, they need tricks and books" bandwagon can only serve to do more harm, IMO. Why would you want this?
I'm far from an incel (in a relationship now, have had plenty of flings until the last year or so), but I can understand where a lot of the bitterness comes from for these folks.
Our dating market and social systems are totally screwed up. Go into any bar today and you rarely see people interacting. Not just men and women in a pickup bar either - but it's difficult to walk into a Buffalo Wild Wings and even talk about the game that's on with another man.
Lol. Maybe 'cause going to bars or clubs to find a mate isn't a go-to venue for a lot of people, because there are other, often better, methods to meet people. A lot of singles aren't into the bar scene.
Quote:
Online dating is awful. You have hordes of men approaching even relatively below average women. These women can get a very exaggerated sense of their own desirability from these interactions. It's not uncommon at all to have a 3/10 woman with a poor job and a lot of personal baggage rejecting a 6-7/10 man with some success under his belt. If the 6/7's in looks and top 10%-15% earners or so aren't having much luck, where does that leave the rest of the men?
One-third of new marriages are couples who met on a dating site. So...people, yes, even average men and women, are meeting and dating after crossing paths on a dating site. This narrative that "regular men" have such poor success on dating sites to the point that they just do not work, originates in these bitter, angsty realities of Incels and their ilk.
I get the desire to feel a connection and experience companionship, but no one is owed a significant other, or in the case of the Incel fantasy, a Stacey or Becky, because this is the archetype they pine after, not the Blossoms. They show no interest in their female equivalent. The girls or women who are quiet, socially awkward, introverted, nerdy, geeky, shy, etc. Because there are online spaces for people who fit this type.
And, the majority of the 100+ dates I went on were not "8-10s." So, that would suggest these average and slightly above-average men were getting dates. Yes, even a socially awkward, shy 27-year-old virgin and a few men with ASD (disclosed while talking).
I have a good number of friends who met their normal, average-looking husbands on a dating site. So there's that. I'm in a small mom group of roughly 35 women. 9 of us met our husband's on Match or OKC within the last six years. Their husbands are average guys. The vast majority are not Chads or Brads and several of the women are professionals whose husbands are professionals. There's one member who has a "hot hubby" as the other ladies have said. He's a pro athlete and he makes good money. His wife is a "Stacey" and they live the "good" life.
But did it work for you? Don't you still require very specific actions on the girl's part, plus medications, to get aroused? Don't you think this has always been the larger problem, not that you "couldn't get" dates but then a book helped you, but rather that you felt nothing when in the presence of a woman who did not have your fetishes? And aren't you still having problems, taking the pills, not really trusting your girlfriend, she cries, etc.? Isn't it disingenuous to tell guys they just need to read this book and it will help them, in light of all this?
I am NOT trying to call you out or embarrass you, but the way you're presenting this isn't going to help the average guy. Your situation is NOT typical by a long shot and it is you who have always been severely overly-picky and demanding of exact situations and exact actions to even become mildly stimulated. Yet you're presenting this as if you were the average guy who just hadn't really learned the skills yet to communicate with women. This rewriting of history, at least according to the things you've said here even up to the present day, only feeds the incel flames of "see? You can be a perfectly average, nice guy but women just SHUN you...let's get even angrier."
You're not helping them, you're not helping non-incel-identifying but lonely guys, and you're definitely not helping to bridge the divide that keeps some dudes so infuriated with women, society, anything and everything but themselves. It's so frustrating to watch this because so many of us have said this from the beginning - that incels present things in a warped way in order to "prove" it's women/society who are the problem - yet here you are doing it right in front of people you've discussed this with for years.
New guys reading this won't know that, though. It's 100% disingenuous and your hopping on the "nice guys just can't get laid, they need tricks and books" bandwagon can only serve to do more harm, IMO. Why would you want this?
Well I think it has helped a lot though. I am not rewriting my history. I couldn't get any women at all for years, before 2009, before I read the books and started trying that.
Now the fact that I have to take pills is separate issue though. I don't think that has anything to do with this, and a lot of guys will not have to take medication I don't think.
If I hadn't have read the books and applied the advice, I wouldn't have even gotten any women most likely. I wouldn't even have a gf now.
So I would say yes, it has worked for me. The pill issue is a separate issue from this I feel. But I was involuntarily celibate before 2009, and I feel that I am qualified to say that the books can help some people at least, or at least they did me. Now I mentioned the books cause they helped me, I don't want to do more harm. How would recommending books possibly do more harm? Just cause they might not work for some, compared to me?
I'm far from an incel (in a relationship now, have had plenty of flings until the last year or so), but I can understand where a lot of the bitterness comes from for these folks.
Our dating market and social systems are totally screwed up. Go into any bar today and you rarely see people interacting. Not just men and women in a pickup bar either - but it's difficult to walk into a Buffalo Wild Wings and even talk about the game that's on with another man.
Online dating is awful. You have hordes of men approaching even relatively below average women. These women can get a very exaggerated sense of their own desirability from these interactions. It's not uncommon at all to have a 3/10 woman with a poor job and a lot of personal baggage rejecting a 6-7/10 man with some success under his belt. If the 6/7's in looks and top 10%-15% earners or so aren't having much luck, where does that leave the rest of the men?
I disagree, because I think there have always been guys like this, who are not good at interacting with people or interpreting non verbal social cues. I think some don’t really even like people all that much and really don’t like women in general, but are angry that this need isn’t being met. But others are just unable to navigate the world socially. Frankly I think communication via computer is more comfortable for them than talking to someone in a bar would be. A guy capable of approaching and starting a conversation with a strange woman in a bar is highly unlikely to be an Incel IMO.
The 1950’s movie Marty was about a guy who struggled socially, this is as old as time. I think in times past though they had more options if only because being single was not a socially acceptable option for women as it is now. I don’t think these guys have many friends who are male either.
As someone who did online dating for years off and in, I will say it’s a fallacy that women have many choices. There is a new meat phenomenon yes, but there might be 5 out of 20 that have possibility (many of them are lifers who have been there for years, many have profiles that are angry diatribes about what they don’t want, others are married or in an “open” relationship, many are newly single or separated, many write rude/sexual things).
So you write back to those 5. 2 of them respond back. One writes and writes but disappears when you suggest meeting. Maybe the other becomes a date. Maybe 20% of those become 2nd dates. 10% of those you like and start to get excited about, but they disappear after the second date.
After you’ve been there for awhile, the inundation STOPS because there is a whole new crop now. It is HARD to meet someone online regardless of gender.
It is HARD to meet someone online regardless of gender.
I can definitely agree with that. Hard to meet someone GOOD, anyways. I think the biggest problem with online dating in general is too many jerks on there, mostly male. So all women are inundated, and quality guys are hard to spot.
That would be most single women my age (mid-60s). It's kind of frustrating since I'm fit, healthy, slender, well-educated, well-traveled, financially independent, etc., etc., but that's just the way it goes. I don't whine about it, and I certainly don't think men owe me sex.
It would seem the solution for the male Incels is to pursue women over 60, who are more experienced and better in bed anyway. Maybe they have a duty to do so. The problem is they feel entitled to pretty young women.
Last edited by pvande55; 10-24-2018 at 04:09 AM..
Reason: Add line
It would seem the solution for the male Incels is to pursue women over 60, who are more experienced and better in bed anyway. Maybe they have a duty to do so. The problem is they feel entitled to pretty young women.
What did senior women ever do to you that they should deserve crazy incels? If women are going to cougar it up it isn't with those hateful losers.
"Why do incels struggle to get a date with online dating sites and apps?"
Hm... Well, we're talking about guys who have bitterness and anger at the core of their self-identified mindset. And they are also accustomed to venting and complaining online, to other guys on incel sites, about how awful and unfair it all is.
So I'm gonna say, I'd make a bet of like $10 per incel, that if I were to visit their dating site profile, and print it out, I could highlight about dozens of things they don't even realize, that are red flags to women.
Guys act like women are window shopping for ya'll, like seeing a pair of shoes in a store window and wanting based on a glance. We're not. While looks may be a meaningful factor for some (maybe many) women, they are not the ONLY one that counts for nearly any of us. We are reading your words. We are hearing you speak. We are reading between the lines. Picking up the cues. Smellin' what you're cookin'. Because women have to be on the lookout for men who might stalk, harass, rape, kill, kidnap or abuse us, we have an INSTINCT to try and pay attention. So a guy might think he's not showing any of his baggage, but it's like my cat trying to hide under the bed, his head is under there but his arse is hanging out, and he thinks he's invisible but he's not. Kinda funny, kinda sad.
I would say if a man is seriously struggling to find a date, consider finding a therapist. Not one of those, "and how did that make you feel?" passive types, but someone who is no-nonsense and holds you accountable. And if not that, then consider making a few female friends, like really "just friends" friends (hear me out) so that you can ASK THEM and get honest objective female opinions, on what the problem is. Tell them you want the truth, no matter how harsh, and you can handle it. Show them your profiles online. LISTEN to her feedback.
Because believe it or not, unless you come off as a total toxic psycho, if you're just a regular guy having a hard time, most of us actually do want you to succeed and find happiness, even if we are not willing to personally be the solution to your problems.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
