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I think that it a mistake to equate frugality with minimalism.
I also think its a mistake to confuse "maximalism" or whatever the opposite of minimalism is, with extravagance.
I've known some pretty "materialistic" minimalists and some that spend like the proverbial drunken mariner.
People that like to have stuff, or acquire stuff, do so because they see possibilities, security, or are scratching an itch. Their comfort comes in knowing that a contingency is covered.
Minimalists get comfort from a certainty that there is nothing holding them down or complicating their life in terms of stuff, and no anxiety to be had from disorganization.
That isn't the same as someone that spends beyond their means...That's a function of poor financial habits or insecurity or something else.
Refusing to get rid of one's junk is something else entirely, assuming it is junk in that it doesn't serve a purpose now and is unlikely to at any point in the future.
I tend to be frugal. Not because of my limited income. One reason stems from my religious beliefs. Not trying to be negative but we can't take our stuff with us when we die. It's best to store our treasures in Heaven. Our lives on Earth is temporary. I know not everyone believes in Heaven and respect those who don't. I think even in Buddhism, minimalism is encouraged. Another reason is, I care about the environment and try not to be wasteful. I've met people who seem to generate a lot of trash and it makes me sad they don't seem to care about the future of our Earth.
I'm not into accumulating stuff. Homes catch fire and everything that was gained inside can be a total loss. Insurance usually only covers so much. One of my friends had this happen. It was a very devastating and traumatic time for her and the family. I felt horrible for them. Things get stolen or misplaced. The less I have, the less to worry about. Things can also be worn out over time or break and need to be repaired or replaced which can cost more money. And it also takes time to move things around to clean and to be dusted. While I do have a few treasures and knickknacks I've collected that represents who I am, it's kept at a minimum so if something was to happen, I'm not going to cry too much over it.
I have another friend who is on the opposite spectrum as me. My friend doesn't understand why that I don't have much interest in shopping and accumulating things. My perspective is he thinks accumulating stuff and going out to eat all the time is some sort of status symbol but yet he has admitted to being in massive credit card debt. He has a really bad habit of buying things and forgetting about it or don't even take it out of the package to use it. One room in his home has a strong, musty odor from so much junk being stored in boxes. I'm not talking about seasonal stuff or mementos, just useless junk that he doesn't want to get rid of.
I have read articles online that it's better to spend money on experiences like a vacation or an enjoyable hobby done with other people such as bowling than to buy things that usually only brings temporary happiness. I don't know how true that is.
See, I consider travel a total waste of money. Give me my stuff that I can look at every day and enjoy. I went to Florida twice and don't remember much of either time except when I see pictures. I'm not a see the world type of person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S
I can see both sides of the argument. I don't buy "stuff" just to buy something. I do have a substantial collection of tools, but they rarely go bad and I use them often. I would love a 2 bedroom + office, 2 1/2 bath house with about a 5 car garage. That would be perfect!
Tools are expensive and never go bad. You never know when you need one of the ones you have.
My son was supposed to get my dads tools when he passed but they were sold on him. Every man needs a decent tool box to fix things. My hub has one.
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Originally Posted by rodentraiser
I love collecting the things I love to collect and if I had the money, I'd have dollhouses, model horses, books and the like all over the place. Maybe I'd have my own museum, I don't know. I have no doubt that if I had the money, I'd also find other things to collect.
I don't know why, but I want so many things. I wish I wasn't a wanter, but I am. My mom tells me not to get her anything for Christmas because she has everything she needs. I may have everything I need as well, but ask what I'd like for Christmas and I could give you a list a mile long and most of those items would be under ten dollars. Of course, if you asked me, I could also give you another list three miles long for things that cost over $100. And up. LOL
I come from 2 immigrant parents who didn't have much and there wasn't much to give as my father put everything he had into our house and into the business which no one cared about but me because I worked there all of my life and helped him pack it up when he retired. When my dad got sick from work related chemicals and died, they threw all of his stuff out. The little bit that was dumped on my door step I carefully packed up and hope I don't lose it to a fire. It's on my grab list if one were to happen.
I collect dolls. I didn't get many growing up so have bought the ones that give me joy. I have way too many Barbies though so will be trying to sell most of them so that I can focus on the more expensive ones that I want.
I totally get collecting doll houses, horses and books.
I'm 53, my hub is early 60's. He's at the point where he wants to chuck everything and for me to do the same. I told him there's no way I'm doing that. He knew when he married me that I collect dolls. He should be happy I'm going to sell the bulk of them. I'm also going thru other stuff to make sure I'm not moving stuff I don't need because I'm a saver. I just chucked a bunch of old cell phone boxes and cases to ones I don't have any more. I also used to build computers, cleaned out old receipts to computers I've built in the past. I will never go down to minimal stuff. I'm not there yet. Both of my kids know what I have. They know they keep what they want and sell the rest; hopefully it will earn them money. I have all of their old toys saved and now have a girl and a boy grand kids who are enjoying them more then the newer toys that are out. With Toys R Us out of business, there isn't many places to buy toys locally.
At some point it is to fill a void. Some form of bragging rights. I like you Kathryn, but the mere fact that you have to state how many houses/estates and such you have inherited makes me wonder what the need is to share all of that. Or how many times you have renovated or bought an expensive rug. I don't talk about money. I don't talk about how much I paid for something.
I was just at a gathering of friends/acquaintances. Someone asked me if my mother had had money. I was a bit stunned--of course this person was just talking about all her mother's money. I just said she had some and changed the subject. She continued to talk about giving her daughters money to fix their windows/roof or whatever. I was bored to death listening to her rant about her money.
The question was: what drives people to be materialistic or minimalists. For me, minimalist, because at this point in my life I am tired of shuffling things around. I don't want my sons to end up taking time to get rid of my stuff or figuring out what is of value.
You can apply the 20/80 rule to practically everything in life. I am trying to just keep the 20 part.
LOL I didn't inherit these houses or estates so I didn't state how many I had inherited. The TOPIC is related to "stuff" and I only said anything about houses and property to flesh out the concept of "stuff." Most of the stuff was given away, by the way. My husband and I DID have all four parents die within four years, so we did have a lot of STUFF and a lot of estate work over those years - more stuff than many people deal with in a lifetime, and we had to deal with it all in four years. Frankly, it was a nightmare.
I also only talked about the renovations because it's on topic. I am not bragging - I'm discussing the topic. We bought our house for WAY below market value - if we hadn't, we wouldn't have been able to afford those renovations. We're not made of money.
I brought up the rug because it's also on topic. I don't need it. No one but my husband and I are going to see it. It's big, so it's the size that impacts the price, but whether or not it's expensive is relative - some people might consider it expensive, while others would think it was reasonably priced. My point is that we're talking about material things and whether or not we're trying to impress others, and this rug is 1) going in a place most others will never see, and 2) I am certainly not going to announce the price of it if someone does happen to see it.
But it sure is going to "spark joy!" Every time I walk across it I am going to love it. I am very sensory - to me, yes, I do love things - stuff - but only if it sparks joy. For me, something has to look good, feel good, smell good, or taste good - or any combination of those elements. Things have to be either useful or beautiful - preferably both. But when I find something beautiful, I enjoy buying it, or placing it in my home, admiring it - whether it's a salad tong or a candleabra. However you spell that.
One of my favorite items is a very cheap, but absolutely beautifully proportioned cut glass pitcher, very small, like for cream or something. Probably from the 1930s. It was a gift from my mother so that adds to the specialness of it. But what I really love about it is it's beautiful, unique shape. I am pretty sure it doesn't impress anyone but me - and that's OK.
One thing I find funny...someone always comes in and equates minimalism with frugality. I’ve cleaned out a number homes from folks that lived through the depression...most were frugal though a few, while financially sensible seemed to enjoy finer things more. None of them were minimalist. Nope. No way. “I’m not throwing away my eight track; what if I want to listen to Lawrence Welk? I have a drawer of CD’s but no Lawrence Welk CD’s.” Or he’s used an electric razor for 20 years, and a disposable for 10 before that, and still keeps his Gillette Safety razor. Or she hasn’t hosted thanksgiving in 12 years, her Son deep fries or grills the Turkey anyway, but she keeps that Turkey roaster.
Whereas most minimalist types I’ve known personally are all about spending money on things that would make your average frugalist choke...because they can’t take it with them. Just my .02.
One thing I find funny...someone always comes in and equates minimalism with frugality. I’ve cleaned out a number homes from folks that lived through the depression...most were frugal though a few, while financially sensible seemed to enjoy finer things more. None of them were minimalist. Nope. No way. “I’m not throwing away my eight track; what if I want to listen to Lawrence Welk? I have a drawer of CD’s but no Lawrence Welk CD’s.†Or he’s used an electric razor for 20 years, and a disposable for 10 before that, and still keeps his Gillette Safety razor. Or she hasn’t hosted thanksgiving in 12 years, her Son deep fries or grills the Turkey anyway, but she keeps that Turkey roaster.
Whereas most minimalist types I’ve known personally are all about spending money on things that would make your average frugalist choke...because they can’t take it with them. Just my .02.
Yes.
Actually there is a significant school of thought, that "minimalism" is just a sort of rich white American folks' virtue signaling fake humility show...thing.
I don't feel quite this way about it, but I do think that minimalism is merely a choice. One of many possible choices, and not necessarily better or worse than a number of various kinds of ways one might choose to live.
Though I do have a friend who has taken her minimalism to the extent of being able to live on the road, just her and her dog, wandering and playing music. I don't think I'd be happy with this sort of a lifestyle, but when I think of her and then I think of my home full of things, I do feel a bit fettered by my possessions. Still. It isn't truly better or worse, it's just a choice one can make.
Culture, upbringing, and family / personal values determine which direction one might go. Also, influence from someone close to you. If a spouse is a hoarder, for instance, that can force a newfound dislike for hoarding and materialism and preference for minimalism.
Culture, upbringing, and family / personal values determine which direction one might go. Also, influence from someone close to you. If a spouse is a hoarder, for instance, that can force a newfound dislike for hoarding and materialism and preference for minimalism.
And vice versa - if your spouse is a minimalist, that can force a newfound dislike for minimalism, right?
How a person grows up influences so many things. For instance, my mom grew up very poor. She had one doll her entire childhood. She ended up collecting dolls. I ended up having to try to find something to do with all these dolls I didn't want - and no one else wanted either. But I was not critical of my mother's love for collecting dolls because I understood why she wanted to collect them.
She also tried to instill a love of dolls in me and when I was a kid she was always buying me dolls. But that didn't stick. Maybe in fact I went the opposite direction, just as she did, because I really can't stand dolls.
I am minimalist because I am too lazy to clean and its the only way I can keep my life simple. But I don't buy into "spend money on experience, not things" because when Alzheimer hits I am not going to remember those experiences. I rather do combination of things and experience.
I believe in less is best and was never into more and more. So many have so much money and are never satisfied...And KeraT it's not good to put "when alz hits" in the mind...it will not hit...Gotta think positive. The mind is so powerful. Like what we reap we sow thinking.
Actually there is a significant school of thought, that "minimalism" is just a sort of rich white American folks' virtue signaling fake humility show...thing.
The "holier than thou" sentiment that a vocal subgroup of the minimalist crowd reinforces that to me. I get it, your priorities are different. That doesn't make them superior. And there is nothing morally wrong with wanting or having a boat or a comic book collection or a hobby that endears itself to clutter/stuff. Neither is there anything wrong with wanting to pursue those things at home, or acknowledging that I won't be able to take a two week vacation backpacking across Prague and Budapest.
I don't feel quite this way about it, but I do think that minimalism is merely a choice. One of many possible choices, and not necessarily better or worse than a number of various kinds of ways one might choose to live.
Though I do have a friend who has taken her minimalism to the extent of being able to live on the road, just her and her dog, wandering and playing music. I don't think I'd be happy with this sort of a lifestyle, but when I think of her and then I think of my home full of things, I do feel a bit fettered by my possessions. Still. It isn't truly better or worse, it's just a choice one can make.
Just a thought...I've known folks wiht that unrelenting commitment to freedom. Its just as fettering as your house full of goods. To me, its like envying my brother's Golf game. Sure, I wish I were a good golfer but I only golf once every two or three years. And If I were as good as he, I'd have to commit time to it that would otherwise come from things that I like a lot more than Golf. There are no free lunches, so to speak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth
I believe in less is best and was never into more and more. So many have so much money and are never satisfied...And KeraT it's not good to put "when alz hits" in the mind...it will not hit...Gotta think positive. The mind is so powerful. Like what we reap we sow thinking.
I know...though intellectually, how are "The Experiences" any different than a big old boat and an RV? You don't take either of them with you...
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