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I haven’t been married yet, but I lived with someone close to 15 years. During that time, I let my friends fall by the wayside and let his friends become our friends.It was partially because he didn’t really like my friends that much, but also part of it was that I just wasn’t as interested in hanging out as I was when single. In any case, when we broke up, rather when I left him, he got custody of the friend so to speak. They were his to begin with, and I respected that. I did not try to contact anyone that had been his friend first.
That winter was the loneliest of my life. However I did come out the other side. It is possible to start over. It is hard, especially since it was the first time I had ever lived by myself at all and I was 38 years old. I felt very isolated I didn’t even have someone to help me do things like move furniture into my apartment. But I got through it.
That said, being single and lonely was not nearly as bad as it was to live with someone and be lonely.
Yes. I know that's of no comfort to someone who wishes they weren't single, but I've been married and lonely and single and lonely, and married and STILL unloved and alone is far, far worse. I did have a child, and those years after I was divorced and it was just the two of us were good ones.
It depends. I know one person who is nearing 40 and is just now getting engaged. She had her share of relationships in the past but they fizzled. She seemed happy just living the single life. She has no kids. She was happy to just live it up and party.
When it comes to rejecting mates, I've been the one who was rejected alot. After a while I stopped trying. I figured "I have my friends, that should be enough". Now, as for marriage and children, I've never been in a position where I could get married and have children. Financially, at this point, it's not a good idea. I always thought "wait until you're stable and well-established in order to get married". I can live without having a romantic partner or kids. However, many people I know were itching to get married.
The older I've gotten, the higher my standards have become in terms of dating. I'm much pickier. I have always had my standards in terms of who I would date. However, I've gotten stricter. Hearing about too many divorces, people getting shafted out of their money, and unhappy marriages, I need to make it clear what my standards are. Her morals and values need to match mine. I'm in my 30s and I've never had sex. That's not a coincidence. That is a moral choice that I make. A woman needs to understand that I won't have sex with her unless we are married. No exceptions. If I do ever date, anuy woman I date should not have kids. I'm not ready to take on kids at this point in my life. I also don't want to deal with the baggage that comes with someone else's kids, such as the man. And in particular, I really won't want to date her if she's had kids out of wedlock and never bothered to get married. I'm old school. I don't do stuff like that. I believe in having children IN WEDLOCK. I believe in waiting until marriage to have sex. It's about building something, it's about "will I be able to build a family with you", "will we be able to raise our children on solid morals and values". I think about things like this. I go in public and find plenty of persons I couldn't marry or build a life with.
I think about what it takes to build a family, to build a marriage, to build a life with someone. I get why the divorce rate is so bad. I live in Georgia, which has one of the highest divorce rates in the country. I have classmates who got married, then divorced before they turned 30, some twice divorced.
Given what you've said, forget "nightclubs" and bars anyway. Whether you're particularly religious or not, why aren't you checking out churches? Your kindred spirit is far more likely to be hiding in plain sight there, don't you think?
Hmm, here in Manhattan I would say that the stigma goes the other way. We tend to look down on people who have chained themselves down to a more traditional lifestyle rather than pursuing an ambitious career and a higher form of fulfillment beyond marriage/kids or whatever. Loneliness? Please. Here that word equates to mental fortitude.
Hmm, here in Manhattan I would say that the stigma goes the other way. We tend to look down on people who have chained themselves down to a more traditional lifestyle rather than pursuing an ambitious career and a higher form of fulfillment beyond marriage/kids or whatever. Loneliness? Please. Here that word equates to mental fortitude.
I lived in Manhattan for a few years - I don’t think there is any stigma in either direction. I think most people are busy with their own lives/careers/personal relationships in any city not to concern themselves with what other people do. Seriously, how would you even know this - unless you are the one having that conversation with people (and you did say ‘we’ in your sentence).
Given what you've said, forget "nightclubs" and bars anyway. Whether you're particularly religious or not, why aren't you checking out churches? Your kindred spirit is far more likely to be hiding in plain sight there, don't you think?
I don't go to bars with the intention of meeting my potential kindred spirit. I go there to socialize. At one time I went to the bars to find women, and failed. Now, I just go to hang out, possibly socialize. I did hit up a country western bar many weeks ago. I found it very easy to socialize, and just have fun.
I have checked out church in the past. Most of the women I've seen in church are married. I was often confused why few single women went to church. Just my experience. Not saying I've given up. I'm saying I haven't gotten to that point of finding a woman in church.
I mentioned the things that I did because it was understood that quality is important.
I agree with you that my highest likelihood to find a woman that shares the same values as me would be in church. This is why I don't seek out romance in night clubs or bars.
As for the topic, I have this to say. I do not see so much a stigma, but a lonely road to walk. Lesser likelihood to get invited to certain events. You have alot of time to hang out, but the married people you know don't have that time.
I was just saying there isn't a stigma. I'm not seeing society loooking down on the childless and unmarried, as a whole. I'm saying that in some situations, it's a lonely road to go down. It can leave someone feeling left out when there are alot of people you work with, who have kids and a spouse, and you don't. I'm speaking from a perspective of trying to relate to others, trying to find common ground with others.
It's a matter of some persons feeeling like "well, I can relate to this person because I'm a parent, and so is this person. It's easier to relate to this person than the person who doesn't have a spouse or children". That is specifically what I'm speaking of.
Well that depends on the times. Maybe the reason they aren't looking down on the childless and unmarried as a whole is because they are too busy challenging others who don't meet their interpretation......right now. They certainly burned enough of us in previous times.
Me, there have those who have asked me "do you always want to be alone?" or "don't I like boys?". As I said in another post, a bachelor friend was once told by a dear family friend that he needed to get with a woman, have a son, and carry on the family name.
Then, on a different angle, I once had an acting classmate, a man 30 years or so my junior, tell me, "I would love to be able to do what you do. Working full time as you work in one major and still take classes in another (acting).".
Me, probably two things. First, it seems like when they were handing out the compulsion to seek a mate, I was not in line that day, cosmically speaking. Secondly, good or bad, I seem to operate on a frequency that others don't want to engage me on.......to say nothing about my defenses.
And then one more thing. Granted, for over the past quarter century, I have been the sole person of my section on night shift. Mine was the life that anyone ever had on night shift, from that when others were winding down, I was winding up......and then all the other things.
As far as feeling left out, well sort of. But that may be more because TV tells us how life is suppose to be and at least some of us find out it isn't like that.
They are happy because of the kids, but it is my opinion that a large amount of couples are mismatched and would be much happier with other people.
MISMATCHED. I think this happens more often than people realize. Observations of friends and acquaintances:
A long time friend didn't want kids: she and I agreed = ick. Then one day she got herself a subscription to Parent magazine and became what I call baby-drunk. Targeted her sister's kid's soccer coach to be her babydaddy. That man didn't stand a chance, and he had no idea. Didn't care if he stayed or left, just decided she wanted babies. YIKES.
Another casual acquaintance I met through volunteering: she and her husband married in their 20s and didn't want kids. She became obsessed with the idea of a baby somewhere between 37-39 yrs old (mentalpause age, I'm guessing); he was saving money and planning for an early retirement. According to her, he made it clear he was not on board with this idea. Well she vetoed him, got baby-drunk, and now has a son that she absolutely fixates on and this man is, from my opinion, left to his own devices. He would stymie her attempts to volunteer and leave the son with him, he would absolutely balk at Disney vacations...I predict a pissed off man and a divorce some day when kid is 18. YIKES
A friend in another state has two kids, and daddy won't work. Not only will he not work, he gets kicked out and divorced and because the court has come a'knockin for child support, he takes a $7hr job, moves in with his parents so he doesn't have to pay rent all so they can't get peanuts from him. My husband's male coworker has also employed this method of not paying for his own special-needs child - he works about 10hrs a week. PS. This is 2 different generations of men. 55/27 yrs old respectively.
These are stable women that should be encouraged to reproduce? These are males an actual stable woman should want to procreate with???
I decided a long time ago (teens) that I did not know of any stable males/ boys/ men that I trusted to hang around long enough to be fathers. Why should I tank my life, and the life of some innocent (baby) person, while some male bounces off on his pecker to the next conquest? Thanks, I'm cool.
For those who advocate society harping on women to be mothers, start mandating men stay home and be FATHERS, supporters, advocates. Not court-ordered ones, either.
Try being a woman in this day and age finding a GYN that isn't an OB also, that isn't also baby-drunk. You can't. Once upon a time in NY I had a female OB/GYN that asked 1x if I wanted kids, I said nope, she said 'good for you, you're smart' and never bugged me about it again. (Yes, she had kids) I move to NC and my God, these OB/GYNs I meet are just stone cold ****-faced for babies. I can't get the surgical procedures I want (hysterectomy) because I have to provide Kleenex and offer consolation to total strangers over the whole no-baby thing. I have changed doctors so many times looking for a level-headed woman GYN and can't find one.
Try being a woman in this day and age finding a GYN that isn't an OB also, that isn't also baby-drunk. You can't. Once upon a time in NY I had a female OB/GYN that asked 1x if I wanted kids, I said nope, she said 'good for you, you're smart' and never bugged me about it again. (Yes, she had kids) I move to NC and my God, these OB/GYNs I meet are just stone cold ****-faced for babies. I can't get the surgical procedures I want (hysterectomy) because I have to provide Kleenex and offer consolation to total strangers over the whole no-baby thing. I have changed doctors so many times looking for a level-headed woman GYN and can't find one.
This part. Yes. I've encountered it, too. Even when mine capitulated and did my tubal ligation, she clearly didn't want to and was absolutely convinced I would regret it. And while I strongly believe that any woman should be trusted to know her own mind on this...after all, what's worse, really, unwanted/unexpected twang of regret one day, or unwanted/unexpected pregnancy? Really? ...but I wasn't even a young person with no kids! I was 36, divorced, with two teen sons at the time. Getting pregnant at that point would have been considered a "risky" pregnancy (though likely it would have been fine.) But this silly person actually thought that I would surely want more babies. Lady please.
You know I've been wondering if they push back so hard on this, because they know that if you shut down the baby maker, they'll never have you as a pregnancy patient (probably makes them $$) and you might not come in as often for visits if you no longer need hormonal BC (again, $$.) I wonder if there is a profit motive, or they're just all obsessed with breeding or what...? So weird.
Hmm, here in Manhattan I would say that the stigma goes the other way. We tend to look down on people who have chained themselves down to a more traditional lifestyle rather than pursuing an ambitious career and a higher form of fulfillment beyond marriage/kids or whatever. Loneliness? Please. Here that word equates to mental fortitude.
Maybe in your 30s.
But by the time you hit your 40s, even on the mighty island of Manhattan, most people have decided to reproduce ... some of whom will move to the suburbs and other cities, and a few who will remain in NYC and raise kids there.
Those who are over 40 and still childless and single, I have found go in very disparate ways. Basically, the typical Manhattan lifestyle of bars/eateries/plays/concerts/museums/running half marathons/etc gets old.
One is a Burning Man groupie, one is a music groupie, another is a workaholic, another is a socialite, another is a non-profit magnate.
Basically, your social network still dissapates in NYC, it just happens at a much later age...
Although I would say there is no stigma against you if you're childless and older in NYC, it's not like there's a whole lot of people in that group either. Definitely less than I would have predicted. Even people I assumed would never have kids and continue to live the 'cosmopolitan' or 'bohemian' city lifestyle, do usually end up having kids.
This part. Yes. I've encountered it, too. Even when mine capitulated and did my tubal ligation, she clearly didn't want to and was absolutely convinced I would regret it. And while I strongly believe that any woman should be trusted to know her own mind on this...after all, what's worse, really, unwanted/unexpected twang of regret one day, or unwanted/unexpected pregnancy? Really? ...but I wasn't even a young person with no kids! I was 36, divorced, with two teen sons at the time. Getting pregnant at that point would have been considered a "risky" pregnancy (though likely it would have been fine.) But this silly person actually thought that I would surely want more babies. Lady please.
You know I've been wondering if they push back so hard on this, because they know that if you shut down the baby maker, they'll never have you as a pregnancy patient (probably makes them $$) and you might not come in as often for visits if you no longer need hormonal BC (again, $$.) I wonder if there is a profit motive, or they're just all obsessed with breeding or what...? So weird.
It's a liability issue for them. Who is more sympathetic than a woman crying for her crushed chances at having a baby? And juries are completely irrational - wouldn't matter that she'd signed 10 disclaimers that she knew what she was doing and how it's essentially irreversible, blah, blah. One or two of those every year could shut a doctor down or increase malpractice insurance cost outrageously. It's a numbers/dollars game.
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