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"Intellectual" sophisticated people aren't necessarily any more praiseworthy, morally or ethically superior, or even capable of providing a better example than those who are not. In fact, many times just the opposite. They can often be crueler, more devious, and manage to get away with wrongdoing a little more often.
I wouldn’t argue that they are superior either. But if you refer back to my OP, it’s about my parents’ inability (particularly my father) to reconcile their views and opinions with how they raised us to be. The whole case for intellectualism came up in explaining that my father doesn’t particularly seem to evaluate things very deeply.
This isn’t about who’s better: intellectuals or non-intellectuals. It’s about why does my father support bad people who conduct themselves poorly even though he and my mother instilled values in us that guide us to live a morally sound life.
People's judgment of character often comes down to tribal identity. It's just how we humans are wired. If a politician is perceived to be 'our guy', 'one of us', 'on our side', ect... people will turn a blind eye to all manner of bad behavior. And tie themselves in knots defending it and/or explaining it away. But the same behavior from someone not considered in-group (or worse yet, in opposition to the tribe) will be swiftly condemned. It isn't.just one 'side' that does this.
This behavior is really on display via politics, but you can see it in pretty much any area of life wheree social groups form. In-group vs. out-group.
It's not hard to imagine how this would be normal and even useful behavior for a tribe of hunter-gatherers.with every reason to be suspicious and fearful of outsiders. We modern humans rise above this to some extent via education, cultural conditioning, life experience, etc... but the hard-wiring is still there.
People's judgment of character often comes down to tribal identity. It's just how we humans are wired. If a politician is perceived to be 'our guy', 'one of us', 'on our side', ect... people will turn a blind eye to all manner of bad behavior. And tie themselves in knots defending it and/or explaining it away. But the same behavior from someone not considered in-group (or worse yet, in opposition to the tribe) will be swiftly condemned. It isn't.just one 'side' that does this.
This behavior is really on display via politics, but you can see it in pretty much any area of life wheree social groups form. In-group vs. out-group.
It's not hard to imagine how this would be normal and even useful behavior for a tribe of hunter-gatherers.with every reason to be suspicious and fearful of outsiders. We modern humans rise above this to some extent via education, cultural conditioning, life experience, etc... but the hard-wiring is still there.
...they don't seem to have a problem when someone they like or support is accused of doing something illicit or wrong. And these aren't people they are tied to in any significant way, but celebrities, politicians, etc. they observe from afar. Their excuse is generally, "Well, they all do this or that; they're all criminals, so why bother with this particular person". When it's someone they don't like or support, then it's often "off with their head", and they go on and on about how dirty or crooked they are.
Since I feel like they did a relatively good job of instilling strong moral values of right and wrong, this is perplexing to me. Have you encountered people like this in your life? How do they, or others like them, possess such a contradictory moral stance (i.e. "it's okay if we like you, but it's not if we don't like you")? How do they reconcile these attitudes with their own moral compass?
This kind of parental conduct isn't unusual. I have seen and heard it for decades and decades. Like many of us parents have mixed values and run from pillar to post because of their emotional reactions, even as they espouse strict moral values for their children.
In the end you learn to cut parents and others a lot of slack and do some personal thinking about the do-as-I say-not-as-I-do conduct you have witnessed growing up. With practice and luck you may turn out a more consistent person.
I don't really understand the reason behind this double standard or contradiction but from your parents' excuse/term that you reported, it makes me think whether or not your parents are following the saying that says:
"The best of the bad" (My transition).
It means (in your case), when there are several persons, all of them are bad, all of them committed mistakes, and there are no choice other than these certain persons, the question will be:
Who is the best of the bad? which means, who is the one of these bad persons committed the FEWEST/LEAST mistakes, or the LEAST damages, he/she will be the best of the bad. The best of the bad is STILL bad but_ when you compare his mistakes number or the level/degree of his mistakes with the other BAD persons, he will be the best. Do you understand it?
It's hilarious, I know, but existed, not only with persons, it could include other things. Some times when you are between several LIMITED choices, all of them are bad, not necessarily wrong, but you don't want either of them, they might be not practical, not helpful, or even not what you're looking for, and there is no other choice, you have to choose.
At the end, about persons in particular, there is no pride to be "The best of the bad" because/since you are compared with JUST THE BAD; the real pride is to be " The best of the good".
Another possibility:
When someone attracted to the previous version of a certain character (person). For instance, the person your father admired was a good person originally, he knows that because that person is from his generation and you have no idea. But when that person got a position, he changed and turned to bad. Your father might still carry the good picture of the old version of that person which may make him ignore or forgive his mistakes.
Another possibility:
The person your father admires or supports, although he committed mistakes, but he may share the same views as your father have in many other sides which makes him ignore his mistakes.
I'm writing these possibilities in order to understand SOME of what MIGHT be the possible reasons, I'm NOT justifying it; because I'm also not convinced of closing an eye and opening an eye. Right is right and wrong is wrong.
In conclusion, your father might not be either of those, because when I read the description you provided about him in the other responses and what you already said literally, he's just SIMPLE.
He might be like we say in the idiom:
" Hey blond! run behind the horse!" (my translation)
This is a very slang idiom . It's used for people who just follow what others say/do, right or left without thinking or even knowing what's going on.
I meant "contradiction", that's why I wrote "or contradiction". Another word is "Hypocrisy". If "double standards" means something else, it means I misunderstood the terminology, so I pull it out.
Perhaps there is some truth to this. Although knowing my father the way that I do, I think this assessment may give him too much credit. He's never come across as a "deep thinker". I don't mean that with any disrespect towards him. I've just never known my father to discuss with any of us any profound ideas or be thoughtful or introspective. He's a truck driver by trade, and I'd describe him as a fairly simple man. After work, he always likes to come home, watch his sitcom re-runs, maybe walk a couple miles on the treadmill, eat dinner, and go to bed. On the other hand, he has been helpful with some of the technical home improvement inquiries I've posed to him.
I'm 33 years old now, and I've had plenty of discussions with him. And while he's always provided the utmost support and compassion, he's never been one to drop knowledge or wisdom on us. I have no fond memories of "that moment when dad explained XYZ to me that changed my perspective". While my parents raised us to be good people, most of the things I've learned in life have been of my own accord. Heck, they never even had those awkward conversations with us about intercourse. Maybe I should be thankful to him for saving us from some of that cringe.
I don't want to give the impression that I'm belittling him or don't respect him. I'm just trying to explain that we've never had those "Dr. Seaver / Growing Pains" coming of age discussions growing up that illustrated my father's intellectual thoughtfulness.
I suspect very few of us had those discussions featured prominently in so many TV shows since the inception of TV. And had you, you would have been squirming waiting for him to stop pontificating so you could escape.
Listen: At 33 (I have a son who is 35), you have grown up in a different world than your dad did. If you've been participating in forums for ten years (or since the inception of online bulletin boards and the internet), the wide variety of opinions and experiences you have been exposed to are much more varied than your dad ever experienced. Especially if he never really adopted the online culture.
My parents raised me with a pretty solid foundation. I was lucky. But I didn't live with Father Knows Best or Ozzie and Harriet or Timmy's dad and mom on Lassie where we knew every problem and issue would wrap up neatly within 20 or 30 minutes and be just fine. We didn't have those kinds of conversations but I picked up a lot by osmosis – and fleshed out the rest as I went along and STILL am.
By the way: Dr Seaver's "intellectual thoughtfulness" was courtesy of a team of writers.
Cut your dad some slack. He did his job. I assume you have no children yet – but if you eventually do, YOU will be charged with doing the best you can to help your kid navigate the world with your supposed even wider knowledge of it.
And in 30 more years, maybe that kid will be using whatever the technology of the day is to ponder or complain to others about what he perceives as your worldly shortcomings. Give it a thought.
I suspect very few of us had those discussions featured prominently in so many TV shows since the inception of TV. And had you, you would have been squirming waiting for him to stop pontificating so you could escape.
Listen: At 33 (I have a son who is 35), you have grown up in a different world than your dad did. If you've been participating in forums for ten years (or since the inception of online bulletin boards and the internet), the wide variety of opinions and experiences you have been exposed to are much more varied than your dad ever experienced. Especially if he never really adopted the online culture.
My parents raised me with a pretty solid foundation. I was lucky. But I didn't live with Father Knows Best or Ozzie and Harriet or Timmy's dad and mom on Lassie where we knew every problem and issue would wrap up neatly within 20 or 30 minutes and be just fine. We didn't have those kinds of conversations but I picked up a lot by osmosis – and fleshed out the rest as I went along and STILL am.
By the way: Dr Seaver's "intellectual thoughtfulness" was courtesy of a team of writers.
Cut your dad some slack. He did his job. I assume you have no children yet – but if you eventually do, YOU will be charged with doing the best you can to help your kid navigate the world with your supposed even wider knowledge of it.
And in 30 more years, maybe that kid will be using whatever the technology of the day is to ponder or complain to others about what he perceives as your worldly shortcomings. Give it a thought.
I agree with much of what you posted here. What I don't understand is his blatant defense of those who have participated in deplorable behavior. His excuse is usually, "Well, they all do it", but apparently it's okay when people he supports does it but it's a down right travesty when others do it.
This is not so much about his lack of understanding of the world around us, though that does play into it slightly. This is mostly about him defending bad things because he supports the person or principles the person stands for. My question to him is simple: Why do you support bad people? You did not raise us that way, and I don't truly think you support those bad things. So then why do you support people who carry out bad behaviors? Why do you have such a difficult time being critical of them when they are bad?
Last edited by Sir Quotes A Lot; 04-08-2019 at 11:30 AM..
I agree with much of what you posted here. What I don't understand is his blatant defense of those who have participated in deplorable behavior. His excuse is usually, "Well, they all do it", but apparently it's okay when people he supports does it but it's a down right travesty when others do it.
This is not so much about his lack of understanding of the world around us, though that does play into it slightly. This is mostly about him defending bad things because he supports the person or principles the person stands for. My question to him is simple: Why do you support bad people? You did not raise us that way, and I don't truly think you support those bad things. So then why do you support people who carry out bad behaviors? Why do you have such a difficult time being critical of them when they are bad?
I think turkey-head hit it in Post 22. I have to assume you are primarily referring to the present political climate. There IS a very strong tribalism involved: Us vs. Them. Some will not break out of it.
Virtually no one likes to admit they are wrong either.
You said he's not a "deep thinker." Well, that's just the way it is. Only YOU can try to do "better" for YOU. He doesn't see it the same way and/or choose to spend his time worrying it. Is he out marching with a torch? No? Be glad of that, at least.
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. It's used for people who just follow what others say/do, right or left without thinking or even knowing what's going on.
