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Thank you very much moooo, you gave me a lot of encouragement.
Right now, my confidence is very low and I feel very isolated. I wasn't seeing friends because I was so busy with working on my songs and playing with Mr. Madd.
Now if someone isn't nice to me I immediately think Mr. Madd has spoken to them and trashed me. I think he wants to prevent me being part of the groups we are both in.
But hopefully he isn't wasting energy trying to ruin my social life. Hopefully he isn't that malicious.
I will do what you said -- I will go wherever I want and act like nothing is wrong. I won't waste energy telling people how bad he is. If he really is an abuser, they will find out anyway.
He no longer has me as a victim/hostage.
Yes, it was almost like a marriage where the husband is jealous and doesn't let his wife have friends.
I don't know if he really meant to end it permanently. Probably not. But I sent him email to ask why he cancelled that event. He answered that I never take responsibility for anything I have done wrong. I wrote back and asked what I had done wrong. He could not say one thing I had done wrong. So he wrote back an insane enraged email trashing everything about me. So of course I never answered that.
But there are also some where he might be. I don't even have to be polite, I can act like he isn't there. His last email made reference to the fact that I'm alone and pathetic. Who would say that to someone who lost their lifelong boyfriend less than a year ago??? He doesn't even deserve a hello from me.
I can see since my post there's been a lot of time spent having to almost justify that you are wanting to see different perspectives on this. It sounds so easy doesn't it to 'just move on', and many other similar phrases. They remind me of other phrases such as 'why do people remain in contact/ in a relationship with someone who harms them?', (physically or mentally). It's not always straight forward, and besides which, he is for the most part out of your life.
The crucial thing to remember here is that you didn't do anything wrong, he may have only given away subtle signs of his true self and you may not have seen them. Importantly these toxic types have a real charisma and have been practising their 'art' for years and can hide their true colours incredibly well... until you've formed some sort of attachment (friendship or more). They can then start testing the waters. And worse. Its human nature for man of us to brush it off as someone having an off day or that you consider you're imagining it, until it escalates and you realise whats going on!! (unless they're REALLY good and subtle and you're stuck). You opened yourself up to friendship and this was exploited, its only natural for a lot of people to become introspective in these matters.... I would probably be going through similar thought processes.
Thank you. I hope you're right, and I hope I can handle it gracefully somehow.
And yes, I can't believe I am his only victim! I can't believe he will become an accepted and respected member of the groups I am involved with.
But, unfortunately, people like Mr. Madd are gifted at seeming wonderful. That's why I'm afraid people will take his side.
I've had 3 people be really nasty to me recently, and they are all people who have had communication with him.
He sounds like a narcissist. Narcissists triangulate. They are great at making people like them and the less one has to do with them, the less one is likely to see the real them. You need to start seeing the hateful side of him as the true side and the nice guy as the false side. But there is nothing you can do about what other people may think of him, or of you should they decide to believe him. The more distance you put between yourself and this guy the better. I know it's easier said than done.
Beyond a brief hello if it's impossible to avoid, don't fall to the temptation to engage in small talk with him. Don't deviate from your usual crowd because of him. Look for a friendly face and try to engage with them, while avoiding him. You'll get better at it with practise even if you feel afraid on the inside of offending him.
I can see since my post there's been a lot of time spent having to almost justify that you are wanting to see different perspectives on this. It sounds so easy doesn't it to 'just move on', and many other similar phrases. They remind me of other phrases such as 'why do people remain in contact/ in a relationship with someone who harms them?', (physically or mentally). It's not always straight forward, and besides which, he is for the most part out of your life.
The crucial thing to remember here is that you didn't do anything wrong, he may have only given away subtle signs of his true self and you may not have seen them. Importantly these toxic types have a real charisma and have been practising their 'art' for years and can hide their true colours incredibly well... until you've formed some sort of attachment (friendship or more). They can then start testing the waters. And worse. Its human nature for man of us to brush it off as someone having an off day or that you consider you're imagining it, until it escalates and you realise whats going on!! (unless they're REALLY good and subtle and you're stuck). You opened yourself up to friendship and this was exploited, its only natural for a lot of people to become introspective in these matters.... I would probably be going through similar thought processes.
You're making all the right steps
You made some good points. I once read one reason people stay in abusive relationships is they minimize the bad behavior as something that's not that bad or an off day as you stated. Perhaps a lesson is to develop a lower tolerance of bad behavior and good behavior does not excuse bad behavior. For most people, I think it's hard to reconcile someone so charming can have a dark side.
Location: As of 2022….back to SoCal. OC this time!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie104
You made some good points. I once read one reason people stay in abusive relationships is they minimize the bad behavior as something that's not that bad or an off day as you stated. Perhaps a lesson is to develop a lower tolerance of bad behavior and good behavior does not excuse bad behavior. For most people, I think it's hard to reconcile someone so charming can have a dark side.
The "dark side" can be easy to spot if we know what we are looking for. I've worked with families of men who are abusive & there are signs O.P. you can look for ....when you ask about how will you know not to get involved in a toxic relationship again
Like...he doesn't introduce you to his family & friends & starts to discourage you from seeing your friends & family. He wants to isolate you to control you....so it may start out as "I just want to be alone with you" but when you realize you have never met his friends....or he is upset your mom calls to check in or your best friend from high school is laughing on the phone with you, that is a B I G red flag. He wants to know where you are all of the time....texts & calls you non stop, doesn't give you room to breathe. He wants to cut you off from your past, your friends, your family....& make it all about him...
Another classic sign of a toxic person is blaming others or blames the entire fail of his past relationships on his exes. All their fault cause they were crazy or narcissistic or anything that puts the blame on the other person...it had N O T H I N G to do with him. Doesn't help you celebrate or encourage your successess (like your song O.P..) & probably doesn't have a very good relationship with his family either as he has a history of unhealthy relationships. And a really big flag is if he accuses you of being unfaithful all the time & is convinced you did X or Y. Confident men who have healthy friendships with lots of people in their personal lives & at work....who encourage women to be all they can be....are rarely abusers or toxic. They have healthy lives & look for other people with healthy lives. Look for those types of people. I think it works the other way around too....women can have a dark side but they are more likely to be toxic emotional abusers not physical abusers.
I can see since my post there's been a lot of time spent having to almost justify that you are wanting to see different perspectives on this. It sounds so easy doesn't it to 'just move on', and many other similar phrases. They remind me of other phrases such as 'why do people remain in contact/ in a relationship with someone who harms them?', (physically or mentally). It's not always straight forward, and besides which, he is for the most part out of your life.
The crucial thing to remember here is that you didn't do anything wrong, he may have only given away subtle signs of his true self and you may not have seen them. Importantly these toxic types have a real charisma and have been practising their 'art' for years and can hide their true colours incredibly well... until you've formed some sort of attachment (friendship or more). They can then start testing the waters. And worse. Its human nature for man of us to brush it off as someone having an off day or that you consider you're imagining it, until it escalates and you realise whats going on!! (unless they're REALLY good and subtle and you're stuck). You opened yourself up to friendship and this was exploited, its only natural for a lot of people to become introspective in these matters.... I would probably be going through similar thought processes.
You're making all the right steps
Thank you mooooo! Yes I think he is pretty good at acting like a normal caring person! But then weird things happen, where he shows a complete lack of empathy. And he seems to get along with some others -- but I don't know for how long.
It is difficult and complicated to understand this kind of person. And it is not the first time I was treated badly by someone, so I want to learn how to never have it happen again.
He sounds like a narcissist. Narcissists triangulate. They are great at making people like them and the less one has to do with them, the less one is likely to see the real them. You need to start seeing the hateful side of him as the true side and the nice guy as the false side. But there is nothing you can do about what other people may think of him, or of you should they decide to believe him. The more distance you put between yourself and this guy the better. I know it's easier said than done.
Beyond a brief hello if it's impossible to avoid, don't fall to the temptation to engage in small talk with him. Don't deviate from your usual crowd because of him. Look for a friendly face and try to engage with them, while avoiding him. You'll get better at it with practise even if you feel afraid on the inside of offending him.
Thank you, good advice. I will try. I am going to a music thing tomorrow. He probably won't be there, I hope, but if he is I will try to be brave. I don't want to feel intimidated and self-conscious any time he is around.
You made some good points. I once read one reason people stay in abusive relationships is they minimize the bad behavior as something that's not that bad or an off day as you stated. Perhaps a lesson is to develop a lower tolerance of bad behavior and good behavior does not excuse bad behavior. For most people, I think it's hard to reconcile someone so charming can have a dark side.
That's true. Sociopaths, or people low on the empathy scale, can seem charming and even empathetic.
There were many weird signs over the past couple of years. But I thought maybe I was overly sensitive or expecting too much from a friendship.
It seemed like he was not capable of perceiving a situation from another person's point of view, only from his own. And it seemed like self-aggrandizement was important to him. I mean, we all have some of that, but he seemed to have more.
The "dark side" can be easy to spot if we know what we are looking for. I've worked with families of men who are abusive & there are signs O.P. you can look for ....when you ask about how will you know not to get involved in a toxic relationship again
Like...he doesn't introduce you to his family & friends & starts to discourage you from seeing your friends & family. He wants to isolate you to control you....so it may start out as "I just want to be alone with you" but when you realize you have never met his friends....or he is upset your mom calls to check in or your best friend from high school is laughing on the phone with you, that is a B I G red flag. He wants to know where you are all of the time....texts & calls you non stop, doesn't give you room to breathe. He wants to cut you off from your past, your friends, your family....& make it all about him...
Another classic sign of a toxic person is blaming others or blames the entire fail of his past relationships on his exes. All their fault cause they were crazy or narcissistic or anything that puts the blame on the other person...it had N O T H I N G to do with him. Doesn't help you celebrate or encourage your successess (like your song O.P..) & probably doesn't have a very good relationship with his family either as he has a history of unhealthy relationships. And a really big flag is if he accuses you of being unfaithful all the time & is convinced you did X or Y. Confident men who have healthy friendships with lots of people in their personal lives & at work....who encourage women to be all they can be....are rarely abusers or toxic. They have healthy lives & look for other people with healthy lives. Look for those types of people. I think it works the other way around too....women can have a dark side but they are more likely to be toxic emotional abusers not physical abusers.
Wishing you healing O.P....
This was not a romantic relationship, we were trying to start a band together. But he did some of those things you mentioned. He hated it when I played music with anyone but him, even if it was an old friend of mine.
Mr. Madd despises his ex wife and blames everything 100% on her. And he has told me about problems with various close relatives of his. Never tried to see anything from another person's side.
But I have never seen him act unkind or abusive towards his wife.
His current wife, by the way, was in an abusive marriage before this one.
It can be very difficult to figure out whether or not someone is abusive. For one thing, we can't expect everyone to be a sweetie-pie all the time. So where do you draw the line. Also, it's very hard to know if our own behaviors somehow triggered the anger.
No one can always be in a good mood. If we're feeling bad, we could be impatient or insensitive. Then the other person reacts, and we might not be aware of what we did to cause it.
You can be almost perfect in every way, yet still get treated badly by an abuser. In a work situation, the victim of a bully is, supposedly, very often good at their job and does not deserve the bullying.
Bullying or abusiveness can be triggered by envy or jealousy. That could have been what triggered Mr. Madd in my case -- he hated to know I was playing music with someone other than him, and he envied the fact that I write a lot of songs.
Now -- in case anyone is reading this who thinks I am being obsessive -- I am only doing this here, not with anyone I know. I am not going around looking like a crazy obsessed person.
My reason for continuing to post is to sort out how we can recognize and avoid abusers. Nothing I have read about this so far makes it clear and simple, in my opinion.
This is definitely not the first time I was ever treated badly. I had close relatives and bosses who were disrespectful and/or angry and mean. So I think it is important that I try hard to understand it so I won't ever experience it again.
Cutting off relations with someone at the first sign of their not being perfect would not be the answer. So you have to decide where you draw the line.
Looking back now, I probably should have recognized Mr. Madd as bad news very near the beginning.
It can be very difficult to figure out whether or not someone is abusive. For one thing, we can't expect everyone to be a sweetie-pie all the time. So where do you draw the line. Also, it's very hard to know if our own behaviors somehow triggered the anger.
No one can always be in a good mood. If we're feeling bad, we could be impatient or insensitive. Then the other person reacts, and we might not be aware of what we did to cause it.
You can be almost perfect in every way, yet still get treated badly by an abuser. In a work situation, the victim of a bully is, supposedly, very often good at their job and does not deserve the bullying.
Bullying or abusiveness can be triggered by envy or jealousy. That could have been what triggered Mr. Madd in my case -- he hated to know I was playing music with someone other than him, and he envied the fact that I write a lot of songs.
Now -- in case anyone is reading this who thinks I am being obsessive -- I am only doing this here, not with anyone I know. I am not going around looking like a crazy obsessed person.
My reason for continuing to post is to sort out how we can recognize and avoid abusers. Nothing I have read about this so far makes it clear and simple, in my opinion.
This is definitely not the first time I was ever treated badly. I had close relatives and bosses who were disrespectful and/or angry and mean. So I think it is important that I try hard to understand it so I won't ever experience it again.
Cutting off relations with someone at the first sign of their not being perfect would not be the answer. So you have to decide where you draw the line.
Looking back now, I probably should have recognized Mr. Madd as bad news very near the beginning.
So you managed to answer your own question - cut them off fast.
Don't you think that being overly hesitant to end a relationship is indicative of overvaluing that friendship?
So then the question becomes why are you overvaluing it? You're too afraid to let a single relationship go because....why? You don't have any other friends? You don't think you can find other friends to take their place? You have to be liked by ALL, no matter what? What is YOUR reason?
You might also want to examine the ways you are mean to others. Rarely is someone ONLY bullied and not somehow a bully to others, it just may be a bit more subtle. Aggressive emotions are sneaky and may come out passive aggressively too.
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