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From the replies it sounds like parents are a bigger problem than “the media.”
Which shouldn’t be surprising.
It certainly was for me.
I know now that my mom's digs on my looks were rooted in how badly she felt about herself. She grew up in the 50s as an outcast in many ways, including not being a stereotypical beauty. I never talked back to her, though, until I was in my 40s. I told her that comments about my body were neither helpful nor appreciated. She was surprised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McDonald
That's the beauty of C-D Forums! No matter how positive and encouraging your suggestions are, there will always be someone to tell you how unworthy your values and aspirations are.
Sad thing is, I think you really believe you are positive and encouraging. Hint: you're not. Just... not.
It should not be overlooked that one of the main reasons those cherry-picked actresses look so good, is that most of them have been doing hard, all-around exercise for many years and eating nutritious foods (and not too much of them). Unfortunately, the majority of people, both men and women, do not follow this pathway in life and their physical appearances reflect this neglect.
Quite a few of the most well-shaped actresses have backgrounds, clear back to childhood, of participation in athletic programs. Instead of bemoaning their physical deficiencies, girls and women who don't like how they look, should start doing something about it, as I suggest. Those who say genetics plays a dominant role in a woman's appearance, underestimate the ability of humans to change and improve themselves with hard work over many years.
I've known some women who were physically not very interesting as teenagers, but who developed themselves into quite striking specimens, by their mid-twenties. So it can be done, but not by those who are too lazy or passive about their own potential. It takes a long time and it's a lifelong project, but those who really want to become better, can do it. Physical fitness can also increase psychological and intellectual strength, in many ways, directly or indirectly. Those who spend their lives hovering over computer screens and never develop strong and healthy bodies, will have shorter and much less rewarding lives.
I see what you were trying to do. But unfortunately your efforts to be empowering and say that if we really wanted to seize the day, anyone could bootstraps themselves into the exact life they want...it is not true, and Homina put it very well when he said,
Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12
Steve,
Women in this thread aren't trying to figure out how to look like the ideal. They're talking about the damage the ideal does, or the damage expectations to look like the ideal does, and where those expectations come from. That's really pretty clear.
Here's the deal man. The most gorgeous women I have ever known had body image issues. If anything this has helped me to realize that the problem is not rooted in reality and there are many kinds of beautiful...it's helped me handle my own crap to know it. I mean really I know a woman who makes people's brains stop functioning when she walks into a room (and god damn I'm proud of the fact that I dated her) but hey...know what? She is very insecure about her looks sometimes. Very. This stuff is psychological, or at least that's what we're talking about here.
And your "hey, bootstraps, ladies!" post completely neglects the fact that not all of the things we're sensitive about, can be fixed by diet and exercise. You ASSUMED it's always about weight, and it really isn't. Women can find flaws in ourselves that you wouldn't even imagine. I have a small benign tumor (a really rare thing actually) on my nose, which I had surgically removed, and guess what...it came back exactly as it was before. Apparently, given how I do get a lot of attention and admiration from guys, other people can see past this. I can't. When I look in the mirror, I feel like a freak because of it. I breastfeed two babies in my life, and as many women experience, I lost my fantastic C's and now have about a sad A size and I am not thrilled about the shape of my body's profile silhouette or how I fill clothing because of it. It's very common for women to get implants for this very reason, and I considered it. But you know, men always say they love natural natural natural, and hate fakes. Yet if fakes walk by, they will swivel to stare. What that comes off to me as, is "If you are not lucky enough to be naturally endowed, I want to sneer and judge you for it, don't you dare get that fixed. Just be inferior and let me put you down." Because in my head...every one is. Though in fact...they are not.
That is the brain crap that women often live with. EVERYTHING can be a source of self-criticism and self-hate, if we are not taught to love ourselves. And a lot of girls are raised being told to serve others, and then vanish into silence and invisibility, to live for the opinions of others, and never to think too highly of ourselves. I remembering being incredibly confused as a kid, even not just about looks but intelligence...I would get praise for doing well in school and being smart, but if I dared to act as though I was aware of my own intelligence in any way, I'd be accused of bragging and showing off and acting better than others...so yes, do your best, but no, put yourself down so that no one feels threatened. It's ok to be amazing as long as you treat yourself like garbage. All in the name of "humility!" As an adult I can reconcile things and learn to dismiss some of this weird conflict and when to care what other people think and when not to. As a child it was, however, much more difficult.
We aren't born putting ourselves down. We are trained to do it.
And I would not be a celebrity for all the money and admiration in the world, so I'm certainly not lamenting that I'm not like one. Yet when my boyfriend gushes about how this one time at a convention, Morena Baccarin touched him right there on the shoulder and he'll never forget that exact spot she touched him once... It's like wow, you are literally more excited about a fraction of a second's physical touch from this "sparkly, perfect" person than you are my whole life that I am giving to you. Incredible. Again, sometimes it isn't about how I feel about me, but how I perceive others do, and there is nothing I can do or become to be that special to anyone ever. That's about the only bit I still struggle with, right there...and only when I'm in a moody mood.
My flaws have been my joy.
So if it makes someone uncomfortable to see my stretch marks...ohh well. I earned that honor to carry two kids.
We each can be so self critical ...partly from who we are influenced by or the culture vibe.
I'll get old and wrinkled ..or have moles that I didn't ask for. But my attitude will still be...beauty within..beats beauty without. Some folks are just ugly in attitude.. and there's no makeup for that.
I was so embarassed about the boobs, and that they would be the subject of talk and ridicule, mostly from the boys, but sometimes the girls I went to school with as well. And my best friend telling me that her parents were talking about me and saying my parents should take me to get a bra...it was all mortifying to me.
By the time I was in junior high...which is a rough time for ANYONE, all I really wanted to do was hide under rocks.
Looking back, knowing NOW that junior high boys are idiots, and were probably fascinated with boobs instead of repulsed...I WISH I could've just owned my boobs and known the power they posessed. lol
When I was 40, my friends and family threw me a birthday party. One of the cards had a woman with saggy boobs, and something about aging. It was supposed to be funny, but I swear to God, I thought the person who gave me the card was making a statement about MY boobs! It shot me straight back to junior high, and I was embarassed all over again. Crushed. (Sigh.)
I was a gymnast as a kid and quit when i started high school, i practically went from B to D's overnight, i was horrified (as were my parents) and they continued to grow throughout high school. I am eternally grateful i went to an all girls high school. I had friends that were ridiculed by boys because of the boobs, whether it be too big or too small.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
And your "hey, bootstraps, ladies!" post completely neglects the fact that not all of the things we're sensitive about, can be fixed by diet and exercise. You ASSUMED it's always about weight, and it really isn't. Women can find flaws in ourselves that you wouldn't even imagine. I have a small benign tumor (a really rare thing actually) on my nose, which I had surgically removed, and guess what...it came back exactly as it was before. Apparently, given how I do get a lot of attention and admiration from guys, other people can see past this. I can't. When I look in the mirror, I feel like a freak because of it. I breastfeed two babies in my life, and as many women experience, I lost my fantastic C's and now have about a sad A size and I am not thrilled about the shape of my body's profile silhouette or how I fill clothing because of it. It's very common for women to get implants for this very reason, and I considered it. But you know, men always say they love natural natural natural, and hate fakes. Yet if fakes walk by, they will swivel to stare. What that comes off to me as, is "If you are not lucky enough to be naturally endowed, I want to sneer and judge you for it, don't you dare get that fixed. Just be inferior and let me put you down." Because in my head...every one is. Though in fact...they are not.
I find it annoying when everyone assumes that everything can be fixed by diet and exercise. I was always very self conscious about my boobs, when i lost weight....they looked bigger. I ended up having surgery to bring them from a G down to a D...one year later they grew back to a DDD. SMH.
I think it's all about representation and presentation.
As a minority woman, seeing nothing but lighter skinned, blonde haired, and blue eyed women in the media can do a lot of damage to anyone who doesn't look like that. It's directly stating, "this is what you need to look like, if you don't, middle finger to you and your looks." Now the image that is being pushed is tanned skinned, plump lips, and curvy physiques. Everywhere I turn it's a new "build a butt" challenge. It's even worse since plastic surgery has become more mainstream.
Am I insecure? Of course we all have insecurities. However, I'm not so insecure that I'm going to surgically alter my appearance. I know I am not an unattractive woman, but I'm not knock out gorgeous either. I'm okay with that. I work out and eat right for functionality. I'm not as concerned about my looks as I used to be. They'll fade eventually because it's natural.
Now at 64 people are always amazed that I am not still in my early 50's and I finally realized that I look damn good considering all I have been through in the last 15 years.
The best part about us ladies on C-D is that we all look 15 years younger than we are!
C-D: "Where all the women are good-looking and above average". Just like Lake Wobegone.
My wife contends that the false images of young, middle aged, and even senior women on Tv, print media, movies etc, make the average woman feel ugly.
So this question is for the ladies: Do you feel that all or parts of your body are ugly, gross, etc? Does this bother you a lot?
If it true, this is a shame because these women spend a small fortune on hair, makeup, clothes, they work out, spend money on plastic surgery, and on to of that, most of the still images are photoshopped. There's no way the average women can afford what these women in the public eye spend on their appearance.
as long as someone's else's idea of your looks is more important than what you see with your own (more intimately connected and experienced) eyes, then anyone can tell you what you "look like". sort of like other kinds of tastes (literally), as in "i like fish; you should like fish too!" even i know i don't like the taste of fish, and if it was a requirement (convenience?) to share the same like of fish, i'd suggest that person seek out someone else with the same taste.
i just see "me" in the mirror. a whole individual with my own complex history, not some "thing" to pick apart and apply labels to, especially coming from somebody else. to each her own : )
The best part about us ladies on C-D is that we all look 15 years younger than we are!
C-D: "Where all the women are good-looking and above average". Just like Lake Wobegone.
If I looked 15 years younger than my age you’d be looking at what appears be a flat chested, braces wearing, pimple having teenager. No thanks! Been there... done that!
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