The Harvard psychiatrist and the Harvard medical student - remember this tragic event? (therapy, men)

[robertpolyglot]

I think this belongs here more so than it does under true crime. Actually, one of the cases seems more like bad psychiatric protocol and the other two were "self-inflicted."

The concurrent thread about the beautiful 22 year old girl from NJ who jumped off the George Washington Bridge brought about quite a bit of dialogue. Central to the dissent were the value placed on the fact that she was termed "beautiful" and that she was 22.

I remember a case that I found very disturbing. In the early 90s, Paul Lozano from El Paso TX was admitted to Harvard Medical School. I don't know much about him, but I presume he had done his college studies in Texas, or nearby. It was reported that he found the transition to Harvard, Boston, and medical school distressing. He sought therapy from Harvard psychiatrist Margaret Bean-Bayog. In the therapeutic relationship, she created a situation where Lozano actually regressed toward more child-like dependence on her. Evidently, rather than therapy bettering his predicament, it worsened and he committed suicide. There was a settlement awarded to his family and Bean-Bayog turned in her license to practice medicine to avoid a "media circus." While I understand the stress he must have been facing, how does a man in his late 20s not know that what was transpiring was not normal? How did someone who can gain admission to medical school, let alone Harvard, be vulnerable to that kind of domination? What were the motives that Bean-Bayog had in taking a route that was very unorthodox and detrimental to her patient? I couldn't find out what she was doing now. I think seeing HER mental health transcript would be interesting, to say the least.

In 2000, another first year Harvard medical student, a Hispanic woman from California, also ended her life. She was married. Those around her claimed that there were no indicators.

I remember these incidents in the news because I got my hands on an antiquated paperback book called "The Gospel According to Harvard Business School." It was fairly riveting, so I read it an afternoon or so. It made it seem very "cultish." In it, one of the students in Harvard's B-school also ended his life.

We CANNOT say that a first year student at Harvard's life is more valuable than that of a janitor who also takes his or her life. However, what is odd is that the lives of those admitted to professional school at Harvard is filled with a lot of potential, from which they can even "dumb it down" after finishing. I wonder what mental health issues are at stake when bright people do this. Where they triggered by the high-pressure "foreign" environment or are they from unresolved issues prior to this? Maybe a combination of both?

Does anyone remember and/or have any insight into the two HMS suicides within the last 2 decades?

[Billy_J]

Read the book: "The Making of a Woman Surgeon" by Elizabeth Morgan. In that book she will tell you ALL about Harvard Medical School and what goes on there. It is not pretty!

For that matter, medical school anywhere in the U.S. is very tough. The above book is a pretty good snapshot of what medical students go through.

Here is that book...
The Making of a Woman Surgeon: Elizabeth Morgan: 9780399123610: Amazon.com: Books

[robertpolyglot]

Originally Posted by Billy_J

Read the book: "The Making of a Woman Surgeon" by Elizabeth Morgan. In that book she will tell you ALL about Harvard Medical School and what goes on there. It is not pretty!

For that matter, medical school anywhere in the U.S. is very tough. The above book is a pretty good snapshot of what medical students go through.

Here is that book...
The Making of a Woman Surgeon: Elizabeth Morgan: 9780399123610: Amazon.com: Books

I hear they are exhausted all the time, during medical school and during their internships. However, I have heard there is a culture of retention - that they don't want those admitted to drop out. For some reason, there is a focus placed on when this happens at Harvard, and not at a state university, where it probably also occurs every now and then.

I glanced at the link. The blurbs are largely about her challenges preparing to be a surgeon, which is labeled as a "man's world," so the gender thing appears to be emphasized.

Like I said, the only book I read set on the Harvard campus was about HBS. The person described in Peter Cohen's book was described as very bright, idealistic, altruistic, and basically turned off by the treadmill of expectations and fanfare associated with having a MBA from Harvard.

I'll file this book title away in my head. It sounds interesting. Expensive as a new book. Bring on the public library.

[Billy_J]

The new book prices are high, but used are very low! Look again.

Then that book is mostly not about gender issues. She does not have an agenda for "woman's rights", rather her book is quite objective and pretty much about what all medical students go through. Like being forced to work 36 hours straight as an intern. Having to draw blood and similar "non-doctor" tasks - being used as "slave labor" by the hospitals, etc.

But added into all that here and there are her gender specific experiences.

[Lodestar]

I just have a few random thoughts that may or may not be worth discussing.

Brilliance is often associated with poor social skills and a sense of not belonging. Even a quirkiness that could be called mental illness. Would it play a part in suicide?

Entering any college away from home is a stressor. Some people are better able to deal with it than others.

Being a psychiatrist, if the person has a genuine desire to help, is a tremendous responsibility and requires a lot of courage. There is always the risk of losing a patient to suicide. It goes with the territory.

[creepy]

While I understand the stress he must have been facing, how does a man in his late 20s not know that what was transpiring was not normal? How did someone who can gain admission to medical school, let alone Harvard, be vulnerable to that kind of domination?

You bring up a real good question and something I have thought about and interests me.

My mom used to talk to me a lot about intuition and told me anecdotal stories about how to know when your in love or how to know when someone is a dangerous person, etc.

When I was 16 a new beau took me to Dallas with his friend to the Scientology building. My beau's roommate who was about 19-21 like my friend, wanted to attend classes there. my intuition went on high alert soon after entering the building. Meanwhile the roommates friend was sucked in and signed up for classes. I noticed the woman who ran one class was very sexy with long dark hair and high heels and I could see how some men who are gullible men, might be inclined to sign up, due to that.

They told me things that just did not add up and I got more and more uncomfortable and did not want to ever return. They had me do one of their questionnaires and then proceeded to analyze me one on one in a private room. I did not believe a word they said.

I guess my folks raised me with ethics, intuition and a conviction of basic self knowledge and security in that.

Since then I have seen so many people get lost in therapies, religions,etc. i remember one case that stood out for me when a minister convinced a couple to let him have sex with the female of the couple and I thought that was so sad that this couple as individuals were so swayed by someone in authority and religious authority and power swayed them to do wrong.

I lived in the bible belt and there was a segment of people who were too open to this type belief, I don't think it is just Christians tho, I see it in a segment of all types, not just religions. Some people "cave" emotionally to others. A great movie about this phenomena is Holy Hell.
https://freedomofmind.com/holy-hell-...ers-for-years/

[Lodestar]

This reminded me of the case of Brian Wilson, composer and member of the Beach Boys who got so lost in his world and so desperate for help that he surrendered to his guru. The man isolated him for treatment and there was a huge outcry of unethical practice and abuse. But in his case it seemed to be a solution to his way back to some normalcy.

Looking at it from the side of the medical profession how often do professionals suspect they know what is needed but because of ethics, law, or professional fear don't dare do what is needed? (Removing a minor from his parents, for instance.)

In this case the practitioner may have acted on self-serving motives or she may have had a sincere desire to help. I'm not that familiar with the case. Certainly she didn't expect the outcome.