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Old 10-14-2019, 01:04 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,919 posts, read 6,385,278 times
Reputation: 5073

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
But I definitely would like to feel some guilt, if possible. I don't think being insulted will accomplish that. It probably would feel negative if I weren't expecting it, but I am now, so my mind is almost certainly going to go into a detached kind of "they're just words" mode. You could call me a baby-rapist and my mind will just remain in chillaxed mode, calm as ever now. If you do toss in some insults I promise I won't inform the moderators, but I would avoid doing that because they might see it and give you an infraction even if it goes unreported and I wouldn't want you to get into trouble.
I'm assuming you're not a baby rapist so it doesn't seem to me calling you one would produce any emotion. Is there any name someone could call you that might produce a reaction in you? In order for a conversation to evoke some type of emotion I have to either value the person's opinion or maybe they hit on something I need to work on. Is there anyone's opinion you value?

Guilt isn't all that great anyway. If it gets you to change something then it's served its purpose. Yes, getting the rock out of the road would have been better. Next time you hit an obstruction in the road you should probably move it.

I wonder how many people saw the rock and avoided it until you hit it. I wouldn't call them aholes or think they should feel responsible for your tire.
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Old 10-14-2019, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,367,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I'm assuming you're not a baby rapist so it doesn't seem to me calling you one would produce any emotion. Is there any name someone could call you that might produce a reaction in you? In order for a conversation to evoke some type of emotion I have to either value the person's opinion or maybe they hit on something I need to work on. Is there anyone's opinion you value?
I'm not sure what valuing someone's opinion, or not, would mean. I'll listen to everyone's opinion. Some will be right. Others will be wrong. Others will be somewhere between. I'll sometimes get annoyed at the wrong ones and thankful for the right ones. The person behind them makes no difference. My frame of mind might though.

Quote:
Guilt isn't all that great anyway. If it gets you to change something then it's served its purpose. Yes, getting the rock out of the road would have been better. Next time you hit an obstruction in the road you should probably move it.

If you understand Pavlovian responses, you know that they can encourage future actions due to positive feedback. A dog salivates every time it hears a bell because it has been getting fed whenever it's heard a bell, for example. From what I understand that sort of feedback can build up a less conscious form of willingness to engage in an activity.

Unpleasant feelings, like guilt, from what I understand, can lead to the same sorts of results, but in the opposite direction.

Guilt can act as useful negative feedback. For most people, there's a lot of it that's a pointless and unhealthy distraction that serves no purpose. That's why so much of psychology focuses on getting people to let go of their guilt.

There is something I experience that I might call guilt...but I'm not sure most people would because I don't think it's usually unpleasant. Therefore I think I lack the kind of negative feedback I'd like to have that leads to a less conscious form of empathy...a more instinctive type of empathy.

Quote:
I wonder how many people saw the rock and avoided it until you hit it. I wouldn't call them aholes or think they should feel responsible for your tire.
I hit a large rock in the middle of the road. I went to a house immediately afterwards. I should have told her to call someone to move it. I did tell her I hit a rock...but not to call someone to remove it, such as 911 or the transportation department. It was a ways away from houses. It was almost certainly going to result in a flat tire of anyone who drove past next unless they swerved into oncoming traffic.

I'll give you another example of how guilt could probably act to build up a more instinctive type of ideal behavior though.

My dog died a few years ago. He had heart problems. I watched him die. It happened pretty quickly. I checked his pulse. I had raised him since he was a puppy. If you've been reading...you should be able to guess that this didn't affect me in a negative way. It was the weekend. I had nothing better to do. I could have buried him immediately in the backyard after briefly looking up whether or not there were rules against it (I eventually found out that was legal, but you had to follow certain rules).

If I remember correctly, I didn't feel like looking up the regulations for burying animals...so I went downstairs and watched TV. I don't remember how long it took to put his body in a trash bag, but I eventually did that sometime that day. It may have been as long as the next day before I actually got around to burying the dog...because I was more interested in watching TV...or maybe I was playing computer games.

Now, there's a limited amount of control we have over our future selves. One way we can better control our future selves is through building up instinctive responses now. That's what I'd like to figure out how to do so that those sorts of inappropriate behaviors happen less often, or preferably, never.
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Old 10-14-2019, 01:53 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,919 posts, read 6,385,278 times
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Ok.. The dog story helps me see what you are talking about. That does seem like an extreme reaction to me whereas the rock story, not so much. I'm assuming this was not some kind of avoidant or shock thing because you didn't mention the death hitting you later.

How do you react to violent movies? Do you ever wince? Do you ever put yourself in someone else's place just naturally? I remember I heard a story of a young woman who was abducted from her gas station job and murdered. Upon hearing that story I felt sorry for her mom. That's when I knew I was getting older too.
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Old 10-14-2019, 01:59 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,919 posts, read 6,385,278 times
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I'm thinking about your dog story some more and if you don't have the usual reactions to events then I don't see how you could empathize with people that do.
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Old 10-14-2019, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Germany
724 posts, read 434,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
There is something I experience that I might call guilt...but I'm not sure most people would because I don't think it's usually unpleasant. Therefore I think I lack the kind of negative feedback I'd like to have that leads to a less conscious form of empathy...a more instinctive type of empathy.

My dog died a few years ago. He had heart problems. I watched him die. It happened pretty quickly. I checked his pulse. I had raised him since he was a puppy. If you've been reading...you should be able to guess that this didn't affect me in a negative way. It was the weekend. I had nothing better to do. I could have buried him immediately in the backyard after briefly looking up whether or not there were rules against it (I eventually found out that was legal, but you had to follow certain rules).

If I remember correctly, I didn't feel like looking up the regulations for burying animals...so I went downstairs and watched TV. I don't remember how long it took to put his body in a trash bag, but I eventually did that sometime that day. It may have been as long as the next day before I actually got around to burying the dog...because I was more interested in watching TV...or maybe I was playing computer games.
Did you love your dog? yes or no?

Are there things that can make you really excited?

When was the last time you cried, and why if you would like to answer?
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Old 11-01-2019, 03:55 PM
 
Location: all over the place (figuratively)
6,618 posts, read 4,914,962 times
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It sounds like a conscientiousness issue to me.
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Old 02-08-2023, 07:22 AM
 
5 posts, read 5,871 times
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Initially Had a great experience with them but the day I moved in I realized how much I was lied to. Almost everyone in NYC real estate is crooked. Basic building systems are still not 100% functional 8 months in. I asked about certain major punch list items and was lied to and pressured to sign a lease in 48 hours. All they care about is the deal and their commission. Not Disclosing inoperable central heat/cooling before signing is criminal in my book.
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Old 02-08-2023, 10:14 AM
 
9,229 posts, read 8,580,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
..I didn't ..., because I didn't think of it. I do have a pretty strong conscience and empathy, but it's very much a slow-moving, philosophical kind of empathy. I have, more or less, zero rapidly-reacting instincts that tell me "Go help that person in danger!" It's more like "I should help that person in danger because, despite the fact that I'm not really in the mood to do so right now, that would make me something less of an a-hole."

...I'd like to figure out how to feel guilt in this situation so I experience the negative feedback that could make it less likely for it to happen again, but I'm not sure how yet. I may figure it out eventually, or not.

This is one of the first times I've wondered if I might actually described as a kind of proto-psychopath or sociopath, not someone who will turn into one eventually, but rather someone who has the kind of mind that might have resulted in them becoming a real psychopath or sociopath under different circumstances. ...
So, again, I want to figure out how to feel some guilt and I can't afford a psychologist right now.
It doesn't sound to me like you are any different than any other young man -- presuming you are in your 30s or younger. The fact that you are concerned you are not feeling enough probably puts you ahead of many others in that area of concern for others.

Guilt is not something you want, it only hurts you, and helps no one. I think what you may want to develop is consideration for others. Examples:
- I just hit a rock and got a flat tire. I don't want others to have this happen, so I will turn on my flashers, get out when it is safe, put the rock in my car and move safely out of traffic.

- My car is parked in front of someone's house. I will leave a note in the dash so if someone is concerned about it, they will know that I am coming back to get it as soon as I can get assistance.

It isn't unusual that males are not socialized to be considerate for others, it's relatively recent that it was viewed as expected. Be kind to yourself and others, and when something negative happens to you, ask yourself if there is anything you can do to see that others are not effected by it. You will be fine.
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Old 02-08-2023, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,454 posts, read 14,773,837 times
Reputation: 39669
I don't believe that negative emotions such as guilt are motivational for everyone. It may depend on what kind of a person you are.

I've met people who have an almost indulgent impulse to wallow in negative emotions, and little desire to do any action to alleviate them. A common reason for this that I've seen, is that they can express to others that they are suffering and get other people to speak kind words of assurance and support to them. I don't think that it's wrong to desire assurance or support from other people, but I do think it's questionable to go about it in this way. Not only as a matter of whether it's manipulative behavior, but in the sense that you are harming yourself twice to get there. The first being holding and indulging the negative emotional/mental state. The second being a possibility of harming relationships with those who could otherwise be an ongoing support network, because if you do this kind of thing too much it gets exhausting for others to deal with.

Then there are people like me...avoidant types. A negative feeling like guilt can set off an impulse to flee and not deal with it, rather than one to do something about it. I won't even talk about some things that I feel guilty about, but carry them as personal secrets. The act of sharing could get me some kind of understanding or soothing from another person especially if they care about me and want to give me that kind of affirmation...but I don't feel deserving of absolution, and I consider a few things in my life history (but not the things that some others with different values might assume!) to be burdens that can only be carried alone, unless or until I one day find a way to forgive myself for them. And no, I will not give an example here, because of course I won't. Not even the shield of supposed anonymity could persuade me to share this information, that's exactly the point...I just don't. Not with anyone, ever. And thinking about them causes me pain. The real avoidance, as I see it, isn't that I won't talk about this or that incident, it's that I don't even want to think about them, I push them away if they arise in my mind.

I don't feel guilt about much. I consider it to be an unnecessary form of self-flagellation most of the time. But when I do, it's enough to make me want to shove a memory right out of my reality.

However, I also don't feel a need to push myself to act on heroic impulses. I'm pretty well aware of where my strengths and weaknesses lie, and if there is a possibility that me trying to do something altruistic will put me in danger, to a point where someone else might feel they should or had to act to help me, which would put THEM in danger...I'm much better off just staying out of it. Running into traffic to move a rock is one of those sorts of things, as is trying to volunteer to help fight a fire, given that I am not trained to do that. When I encounter a situation where I can leverage a skill that I actually have a strength in, to offer aid to someone else, I do.
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Old 02-08-2023, 02:00 PM
 
Location: on the wind
23,479 posts, read 19,172,285 times
Reputation: 75857
Quote:
Originally Posted by godzzilla10 View Post
Initially Had a great experience with them but the day I moved in I realized how much I was lied to. Almost everyone in NYC real estate is crooked. Basic building systems are still not 100% functional 8 months in. I asked about certain major punch list items and was lied to and pressured to sign a lease in 48 hours. All they care about is the deal and their commission. Not Disclosing inoperable central heat/cooling before signing is criminal in my book.
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