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I wasn’t implying you had insulted all women (if anything, you were doing a fairly good job against men - lol, kidding). I appreciate your apology and recognition of the way it was perceived in re: an illusory argument. That said, perhaps this thread is better suited for women relative to their experiences (as a victim) directly linked to the thread title; and as a man, I’m inadvertently getting in the middle of a few emotional discussions about exes and those experiences. I’ll leave you to it - thanks again.
The only people I am admonishing in this thread (and I wouldnt even call it "insulting" because they are proud of how they are) are psychopaths.
Location: As of 2022….back to SoCal. OC this time!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moongirl00
The only people I am admonishing in this thread (and I wouldnt even call it "insulting" because they are proud of how they are) are psychopaths.
Looks to me like he said he was kidding...........
Psychopaths aren’t proud of how they are because they have no conscience.....they just are.........their way of learning to deal with anything......is not about feeling........they are 1% of the population......
Regarding a post talking about women who seem to have a persistent pattern of unhealthy relationships, after which they always complain about how terrible the man was, but then her next partner is...also terrible. Well. How many guys do we have who are very convinced that past bad outcomes are only going to keep on repeating and it isn't their fault, and they start interacting with a new woman but self-sabotage in ways that are obvious to others...and when the failure happens right on schedule, come onto the internet to holler about how awful women are? I mean... There is a certain psychological profile of a human being who sets themselves up for problem after problem of a similar kind, over and over, like addicts of some sort, and will not turn their gaze upon their own part in it. Often it isn't really a matter of FAULT though, so much as unexamined and unresolved issues that wrote a kind of unhealthy subroutine in their minds. But I have known fewer women who repeat these patterns in a life-long way...as compared to men I've seen repeat them for long periods of time. Some heal and break free of it, some don't. It's somewhat like people who carry on chains of multi-generational domestic abuse or codependency or whatever. It may not be that individual's fault that they grew up learning really unhealthy stuff...but they are still the only one who can change it.
But this doesn't describe, at all, the majority of women who have experience with seriously toxic partners. (I don't like to even use the word "psychopath" specifically, that smells very armchair-diagnostic to me, and there are plenty of other personality disorders and psychoses that can make someone an abuser.) What CorporateCowboy is saying about taking our time and getting to know someone carefully makes sense, sure...but couple that with what I said about being vulnerable, not even "weak" but vulnerable for very normal reasons. Even simply that you are young. Or you are a decent person who looks for the good in others and doesn't assume that they're all lying or out to get you. Getting stuck or trapped, I think, often is a matter of being vulnerable, at least in the sense that once you truly realize you're in a bad situation, it CAN be very hard to get out. At least that was my case. Tell ya another thing about my own toxic marriage, he always blamed his behavior on the life factors we were going through. And they WERE stressful. So I hoped, for years, that if I kept us on the right course, and worked hard, we'd achieve a successful and comfortable enough lifestyle that he could be a happier man and not be violent and angry and miserable. Well, we reached that point and he was worse than ever, so that was pretty much the end of the line for me. Truly toxic people have a way of turning your best qualities against you...optimism, love, compassion, "agreeableness"...they'll convince you that if you just hang in there, things will be better one day.
But like addictions and other bad situations people get into, a lot of the time, a person doesn't put a firm stop to it, until they hit a kind of rock bottom. When they KNOW that it's not going to get better, that it's either escape, or let yourself be destroyed, and the sunk costs can't be a factor anymore.
It's like...we can point to so many different scenarios of how people get into bad or dangerous situations in life. Everyone's story is different. Some are similar to some others, but no two are exactly alike. And the few people who go through life with unconscious subroutines setting them up for repeat victimhood...acknowledging that it's even a thing that happens here and there is NOT the same as me or anyone saying that every victim is to blame for their situations. Or even that those particular few are. They're not consciously choosing it.
In a recent conversation I can paraphrase, explaining that I did not select my toxic ex husband from some kind of a line-up of eligible men standing there or interviewing for the position in my life. I didn't even intend to have his kids or marry him. Is anyone here seriously going to claim that an 18 year old person should have it all SO figured out that nothing in life can just sweep them along? That they should be totally independent, financially secure, wise enough to carefully vet partners, make no mistakes, and certainly not get into a situation where they're just rolling with the punches in life?
Good point too that the "nice" guys don't make the moves...because I had one of the sweetest men I'd ever known reveal to me a couple of years into my marriage that he'd crushed on me and wanted to date me. But he never said, never let on, and I had zero idea that he had any interest at all. None. I would have chosen him instead, if I'd known. By the time I did, I already had an unplanned baby by Mr. Jerk. Incidentally, the woman that Mr. Nice ended up with at that time was a crazy, dramatic, abusive b-word, too. But nobody wants to talk about what attracted him to her, I guess...
Location: As of 2022….back to SoCal. OC this time!
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Originally Posted by shelato
Nonsense. The love bombing phase usually last around two months. During that first two months you think you met the authentic version of the person you are dating.
I think you are being naïve. You are underestimating the effect of the duration of the love bombing phase of psychopathy and then just kind of dismissing it as poor vetting.
You will have to tell us “Professor” what the “love bombing phase” of psychopaths is.......because I never learned this & it’s not in the DSM 5......
Looks to me like he said he was kidding...........
Psychopaths aren’t proud of how they are because they have no conscience.....they just are.........their way of learning to deal with anything......is not about feeling........they are 1% of the population......
You will have to tell us “Professor” what the “love bombing phase” of psychopaths is.......because I never learned this & it’s not in the DSM 5......
I always thought that was more of a Narcissist thing... or is it simply a phase in abusive relationships?
That's why I said, a big flaw in this thread is the armchair psych aspect, because few of us have known someone who has been professionally confirmed to be an actual known psychopath...but all of us have known seriously unhealthy, toxic people who were really bad news for the partners who were with them.
I don't really feel qualified to specifically talk about psychopaths. But men under a broader category of abusers, "jerks", or even just dark triad types...OK, yeah. 'Cause we all knew this thread would end up with the fellas who espouse the old "nice guys finish last" notion.
Ted Bundy's girlfriend had a hard time totally letting go. Still took his calls. Still was unsure whether to believe if he raped and murdered those women. No one would want to believe such a thing, but gosh.
Location: As of 2022….back to SoCal. OC this time!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
I always thought that was more of a Narcissist thing... or is it simply a phase in abusive relationships?
That's why I said, a big flaw in this thread is the armchair psych aspect, because few of us have known someone who has been professionally confirmed to be an actual known psychopath...but all of us have known seriously unhealthy, toxic people who were really bad news for the partners who were with them.
I don't really feel qualified to specifically talk about psychopaths. But men under a broader category of abusers, "jerks", or even just dark triad types...OK, yeah. 'Cause we all knew this thread would end up with the fellas who espouse the old "nice guys finish last" notion.
That’s my problem with the thread because there are very serious issues about spotting dysfunctional & abusive relationships.......& it’s being so simplified as psychopaths.....but psychopathy is a very rare disease & it starts with a history of antisocial behaviors in adolescence......other PDs are too....
All problems with men are most likely not psychopathy.....all people have traits of personality disorders...so you can’t see one trait & say oh my gosh he is a psychopath. Love bombing can happen with any PD....it can happen without it too.......BUT a persons behavior won’t match their words every time.
What makes it a diagnosable disorder is when these traits & histories.....are to the level it changes the persons life & they are unable to function in a normal way......
So most of what people are talking about is men being jerks.....& we just need to open our eyes & see what relationship we are in......& stop being victims......
We all aren’t attracted to ted buddy....laughs.....
Every trait in PDs are present in all of us.........that’s not how a PD is diagnosed.....
A N D....all bad relationships aren’t the result of mental illness......
Many years ago, I knew a young woman who dated Ted Bundy when he was in Utah. We worked for the same company. They speculated she was on his victim list but he was forced to leave the area before their 'relationship' really got off the ground. That was certainly good for her.
She said he was one of the best guys she had ever dated. He was attentive, not cheap, kind, and very interested. He was polite and well mannered. Dressed well and was well spoken. Very charismatic and her friends liked him too. She never saw any 'crazy' behavior but she did think he was too good to be true. And it turns out he was!
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The only people I am admonishing in this thread (and I wouldnt even call it "insulting" because they are proud of how they are) are psychopaths.
