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Old 11-05-2019, 12:05 PM
 
1,166 posts, read 612,928 times
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While I do believe in certain mental disorders, I think lots of them are just a way to quantify any different human behavior as a “disorder” rather than just a different way of seeing and interacting with the world. It’s medicalizing human behavior and enabling the powers that be to label anyone different as “a problem”. It was widely used in the Soviet Union to quell dissenters, and I see it used the same why both online and IRL.

IMO, those that go against what’s considered “normal” are the trailblazers throughout history. Those that weren’t concerned with the opinions of others and often (rightly so) dismissed them as merely attempting to enforce conformity and social cohesion.

Basically the hive mind (the average, everyday, non-thinking Joe Blow walking down the street) is more worried about shaming those that deviate into compliance (often not even consciously). We as humans need to recognize this behavior for what it is and become better than it, by both refusing to carry on the “tradition” ourselves as well as punishing those who propagate it via social ridicule. They’re dumb enough to actually CARE about such a thing, whereas those that are above that recognize it for what it is: the ignorant, unwashed masses attempting to enforce conformity.

Thoughts?
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Old 11-05-2019, 12:18 PM
 
572 posts, read 201,695 times
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I try to take a moderate approach and understanding on most topics. It's often not very popular because the world has become so polarized. Often my hesitancy to take a strong stance on one side or another is perceived as a weakness or waffling. When in reality, I just realize that I don't have enough data or information to make a valid stance on something.

Speaking up for what you believe or think, insofar as it does not align with a particular social group, is often received with castigation or criticism in my experience. Based on my knowledge of history, it seems like that has almost always been the case.

Ultimately, I think the success of your deviant behavior or viewpoints depend on the merits of their moral underpinnings. Hitler, for instance, was rebuked for good reason and his position was shunned and ultimately put to an end. That was not the case for someone like MLK, who was widely unpopular to much of society in the early stages of his cultural uprising, but whose positions caught on, took off, and became the status quo. MLK sought equality for an under-served community, whereas Hitler sought the extermination of social groups he believed to be of inferior stature.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Southern MN
8,235 posts, read 4,710,106 times
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This statement is found in the following link: "Psychologists define a psychological disorder broadly as psychological dysfunction in an individual that is associated with distress or impairment and a reaction that is not culturally expected."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...gical-disorder

I think the article is sufficiently mysterious.

By the way, have a look at the "Father of Modern Psychiatry." Yikes!
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Colorado
15,107 posts, read 9,418,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
This statement is found in the following link: "Psychologists define a psychological disorder broadly as psychological dysfunction in an individual that is associated with distress or impairment and a reaction that is not culturally expected."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...gical-disorder
This is great. I was going to point to something like this. I think of real mental illness as something that interferes with your ability to live and have normal, healthy interactions with other people.

I do, *with a nod to the OP,* see certain areas of misapplication of diagnoses in our society. One of them is when unqualified armchair psychologists try to "diagnose" or label people they know, without so much as thinking, "OK so it's fair that I feel like something is off with this person, but maybe I'm not qualified to say what it is." I know that we all have read up on how your dark-triad personality disorder types are not likely to be diagnosed...but does that actually give us all the right to declare every ex partner a narcissist? I've got a nasty Ex who did bad, abusive things. When I talk about him, I mention a thing or two, rather than simply saying that he IS a narcissist or a psychopath or any such thing, usually...because whether he ever gets diagnosed or not, it really cannot be me who makes that attempt. It is only speculation, and shouldn't be stated as fact, anyhow. And frankly it doesn't matter what the label is, the guy was an abuser. "Harmful to me" is enough of a label, I really don't need a lot more than that.

My son dated a girl who had been in various forms of therapy for a myriad of problems for most of her life. If he skipped lunch she said he had an eating disorder. If he disagreed with her, he was a narcissist. If he didn't feel like talking, he was depressed or avoidant. No matter what he did, it wasn't right and she had a psych term to throw at it. There was no right way for him to even BE around her.

Another thing, is that I found out when my own sons were little that some (all?) public schools were getting funding for every kid labeled with a disorder such that they had to be put on a special learning plan or in special classes. So at the first sign of anything they could jump on, they were getting kids diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum, or putting them into speech therapy or whatever. (2 weeks into Kindergarten, you do not come to me saying my son is autistic because he got upset and cried one afternoon under a table.) He is 20 now, turns out he's pretty normal, but if I'd followed the recommendations of the team they called together to try and bully the young Mom whose first child just started school, into putting him into one of their programs, they'd have had me get him diagnosed by their recommended doctor and put on drugs at all of 5 years old. Because the Federal Government was dishing them money to do it.
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Old 11-05-2019, 05:07 PM
 
4,287 posts, read 3,507,947 times
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Of course people who go against the norm aren't suffering from a mental disorder but those who disagree with everything, refuse to admit they're ever wrong have some sort of disorder. There is a huge difference between being a trail blazer and not conforming to society and thinking that you have all the answers, can't admit that anyone else's point of view has merit and the status quo is always wrong.
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Old 11-05-2019, 06:53 PM
 
Location: interior Alaska
5,762 posts, read 4,084,555 times
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In clinical terms, it's only a disorder if it's both a deviation AND it impairs the person's functioning.

Some individuals and organizations have "pathologized" things that aren't pathological, sure, for various reasons.
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Old 11-06-2019, 05:56 AM
 
19,284 posts, read 25,814,586 times
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if we didn't have rules/norms and did exactly what we WANTED to do

id want to drive 110 mph to work drinking a beer some days and smoke a cigarette on my lunch hour with coworkers..

one of the dumbest shows ive ever seen was the walking dead....very very popular...
and what makes this show popular??? in the hundreds of episodes whats the norm???
someone is wiping out these dead zombies in a violent way ….. is this something many of us would like to do to people we either don't like or irritate us??? in our daily lives??

we need norms of behavior …

look at drunk people with no societal inhibitions...….. feeling free......they do much they regret .. they pee in public places and lower their standards with sex...we act like dogs


I believe if we try to instill confidence in our children and not fear..... it would be a different world... yes they would feel more comfortable to be a bit different ….but not be different out of desperation...or an effort to escape who they think they are
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Old 11-06-2019, 11:15 AM
 
11,622 posts, read 4,560,735 times
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Jimmy...you're kind of a one-trick pony, aren't you. More exposition on how it's cool to be non-conformist, and everyone else are sheep.


Did someone tell you that you were deviant? Disordered? Are you SURE it's everyone else's fault?
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Old 11-06-2019, 11:59 AM
 
1,166 posts, read 612,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy View Post
Jimmy...you're kind of a one-trick pony, aren't you. More exposition on how it's cool to be non-conformist, and everyone else are sheep.


Did someone tell you that you were deviant? Disordered? Are you SURE it's everyone else's fault?
Actually YOU are the one who inspired me to make this thread because of something you posted in the contrarian thread, basically saying anyone who is a contrarian has oppositional defiant disorder. Is it never value to disagree and question the majority consensus? You don’t seem to see any value in being a nonconformist, but I see immense value in it. As I said in my OP, nonconformists are the Trail Blazers throughout history while the average everyday person who either couldn’t or wouldn’t stand up are forgotten to history.

I think it speaks for society at large, who shares your attitude, and seeks to shame and label any nonconformist as having a “disorder”, rather than just a different worldview. Society will vilify those who go against it, yet when looking back on history the nonconformists end up revered.

So my question to you is: Do you see any value in nonconformity? Or should everybody just fall in line and never think outside the box or for themselves?

And what do you think about my OP? Basically that society wants to label any “deviant” behavior as a disorder/disease?

And no, nobody has told me anything of the sort.
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Germany
519 posts, read 153,665 times
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As another one-trick pony, i'd have to say that what jimmy says sounds pretty logical. I guess that throws off the balance and we are two ponies against everyone else minus 1 sheep.

Jimmy the only thing that we dont necessarily disagree but needs to be made clear is that because human behavior in a lot of areas is a spectrum, there's no clearly defined borders. I guess that is what psychology as a science is trying to do. Define the different behaviors and figure out which ones make a person difficult to function in a social setting and how it can be managed so that these individuals can have a fairly "normal" life.

It's not always that people don't understand that some people have difficulties - sometimes people with disorders create problems or are even dangerous to be around. (and for the drama queens - no that doesn't mean we should ostracize them).
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