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OK...is it me, or is that a little insulting? Like...it's intimidating to the guys that you're normal and in a healthy place?
When I used to go on dating sites some women would get mad at me because my profile stated that I didn't/don't have any mental, emotional, financial, physical or substance abuse issues and was looking for the same.
I've asked her how she achieves this and she says she has to work at it all the time. She is so ebullient and positive, it almost comes across as slightly fake. She's intellectually brilliant too. Tri-lingual translator. She spent 40 years in Peru, so maybe that helped.
Though I greatly admire her, I admit to preferring more "genuine" people I can relate to.
When I used to go on dating sites some women would get mad at me because my profile stated that I didn't/don't have any mental, emotional, financial, physical or substance abuse issues and was looking for the same.
Apparently some get insulted by this.
As a woman, I agree! I actually had men message me and tell me that I sounded judgmental and "stuck up" or whatever, because I didn't want drama - I don't bring drama to the table and I prefer to avoid it in others. I mean, I had a good job, good credit, no health issues, no substance abuse issues, and I had money in a retirement account - and I wanted the same in a man. Apparently this is very insulting - who knew? LOL
If I bothered to respond I'd say something like, "You're right - we're probably not a good fit."
When I met the man who would become my husband, he was absolutely frazzled and worn out by women who had been chasing him - without exception, they had SOMETHING negative going on, often many different negative factors - financially destitute, on various drugs for stress or depression or whatever, etc.
We sure were glad to find each other. And now we've been married for 14 years and guess what - LIFE brings enough drama as it is without adding these other factors into the mix. Aging parents, adult kids getting into various problems, unexpected surgeries for random things, etc. I knew that getting older was going to bring challenges - there was no point in hauling in a few pre existing conditions beforehand - LOL!
Almost all my friends. Mostly foreigners though. Most of my American friends are on either depression, pain and/or other pills.
I have been told by men that they are impressed how I have my crap together, mentally and financially and that it is intimidating to be so accomplished. It makes me feel boring because I am not as fun crazy. I am happy but not exciting crazy entertaining.
That's normal in my circles, but the women I know tend to be under the radar for most men. Apparently men are missing out on a lot of women who have their act together, and are concluding that most women do not? That's strange.
OK...is it me, or is that a little insulting? Like...it's intimidating to the guys that you're normal and in a healthy place?
Yes, I think it says a lot more about the guys than about the women. These are guys who, for whatever reason, seem to aim low in the character department, when seeking a mate, it would seem. Or character isn't as high on their list of priorities as *ahem* ...other attributes?
I mean, it does bother me sometimes, things that are in this flavor. I have experienced, when I expressed to a guy once how it bummed me out that the really young women can be so appealing to them, like no matter that I'm aging pretty well I'm still 40 and they don't seem as excited about me, as they do some bubbly-cute 20-something... A man actually told me that it was because I am intimidating, because I'm smart and socially connected and powerful, so they feel like they've got to be careful what they say to me, because I've got the power to really damage them. People would really listen, if they stepped wrong with me and I told others. Whereas "no one takes the 20-something seriously" and they can "get away with more."
Do I have to explain how stunned I was to hear that or how much it made my blood boil? Because it sure as hell sounded to me like the guy was 'splainin' to me how men want a cute fluffy innocent whose boundaries can be trampled with impunity. So an actual, healthy and whole human, is "intimidating." Or it is unattractive to be deserving of respect. Just... Wow.
Lots of women have rape fantasies. I know no woman who actually wants to be raped. A rape fantasy sounds a lot like a desire to be raped. Do rape fantasies make your blood boil?
Dating for men involves dealing with a lot of rejection. The dating process involves a fair amount of emotional labor that I think the average woman is mostly oblivious to. I know men who have messaged 60 women and got zero replies back, this is common. I am not saying this to complain about this, but to just highlight an aspect of the male experience.
The underlying theme of most porn for men is a man confronts some obstacle that gets resolved by a woman demanding sex from him. The underlying psychology of this fantasy is the fantasy of getting sex from an attractive woman with none of the emotional labor involved in actual dating.
You are conflating the male fantasy of no emotional labor in dating with the paramount female fear of your boundaries being trampled with no impunity, but these really aren't the same things here at all.
When a 50 year old man looks at a 20 year old woman, its more fantasy than reality because most 20 year old women have zero actual interest in 50 year old men. That being the case you can concoct an elaborate fantasy relationship in your mind of how great and perfect it would be without ever having confront the actual reality of dating 30 years younger than you.
If you aren't following me. If you had a passing flight of fancy for some famous man, say Robert Downey Jr. Because you have no realistic chance of actually meeting him, you can concoct some elaborate fantasy perfect relationship in your head with no chance of it being ruined by actually dating him.
The 'problem' of dating a 40 year old woman as a 50 year old man is that the reality of that relationship is that you likely won't resolve all problems in that relationship by demanding sex from him. You are likely to pursue some solution that is less sexy but more productive like actually addressing the problem.
@CorporateCowboy, PriscillaVanilla, and shelato (not quoting you all, but responding to your sentiments and responses to my post...)
The words (that you, CorporateCowboy, were questioning in particular) were not mine.
They were spoken by a man I know, because I was feeling a bit down, watching a group of guys, including my own fiance, follow a girl all over a party. She is not really, objectively, much better looking than I am. She's simply younger, and acts like a silly, cute, bouncy child. I had made a comment about turning 40 this year, and feeling sometimes like...if men are just plain and simple excited over youth=fertility=attraction, I hate that it makes me question my own relationship, it makes me feel like "why bother?" I do not feel meh about my partner. Watching him, and half a dozen other guys, trail around after this young woman, fawning over her and so on...comparing that to how he treats me, it seems like he's relatively "meh" about me, and that doesn't feel good. And unlike some women I know, I did not get my turn being that girl. At that time in my life...well, I was in a bad place. I'll come back to that.
I think he was trying to compliment me by saying that it wasn't that I was unattractive, I was just "intimidating" because I am powerful and connected in our social groups. He said something along the lines that you could look at a wolf and a bunny rabbit and they could both be beautiful, but you feel safe snuggling up to one of them, and the other one scares you. I did not like the implication that this other, younger gal was "prey," nor the feeling he was saying that if a woman deserves respect, she's less appealing because she's scary. Or that the younger gal doesn't deserve respect. Honestly none of it landed in a comfortable place for me.
I guess that one area where I'm willing to say that it pings back to my ex and the issues I've struggled with from then, is that when I was in my 20's, he was threatened by other men and he told me over and over, that no other man can be my friend and they do not respect me, because they all just want to sleep with me. And if I ever dressed in ways that looked feminine or attractive, he'd lecture me and demand to know "who I was dressing like that for" and so on (and I don't mean revealing, I mean...if I even looked nice for work or anything.) Basically if I had any sexual appeal, I was a bad person that did not deserve respect because of the way men think. And their thinking, defines me. So I changed my style, tried to be as sexually invisible as possible, and repressed my sexuality big-time. I actually had fantasies of cutting up my face, because my partner seemed to be sending the message that a sexual me, was not a full person, not deserving of being treated with any respect or humanity at all. And a betrayal just waiting to happen, on top of that.
It took years for me to realize he had no right to speak for men in general, and it was his own feelings of insecurity and feeling threatened by other men talking. But a lot of damage was done. And I'm somewhat sensitive to hearing from men that they cannot simultaneously experience sexual attraction, and respect of a woman as a human or a person, at the same time. That those two concepts are oil and water in a man's brain. I meet plenty of men who say and do otherwise. So no, I do not believe that this is just a "how all men think" thing. I realize it's likely to trigger a feeling because of my own past stuff. Which is why I didn't say anything about it to the guy who said what he did at that party, although I was thinking and feeling some stuff, for sure.
I feel like my life is filled with unicorns (quick! get the time machine and go tell 7-year-old me! Only slightly joking.) I'm ... not one. Yeah, I'm cheerful and upbeat and always ready to help a friend, but I'm often self-centered, foul-mouthed and flighty. After a lifetime of outsider status, I have become very popular with certain people. But I'm no unicorn. I know a ton though. I'm really good at picking them out. When I was 30, both of my dysfunctional parents threw me a birthday party at a local venue. The place was filled to capacity - we were literally spilling onto the street. My parents came away from it amazed about the "quality" of my friends. It was all they could talk about for weeks.
I've graduated from the Ivy League despite a pretty severe learning disability. I've built a 20-year career with a one-of-a-kind career path. I own a house as a single woman. But probably my greatest accomplishment is the social circle I have built and maintained over the last few decades. There is no shortage of good, reliable people out there. You just have to learn how to recognize them.
@CorporateCowboy, PriscillaVanilla, and shelato (not quoting you all, but responding to your sentiments and responses to my post...)
The words (that you, CorporateCowboy, were questioning in particular) were not mine.
They were spoken by a man I know, because I was feeling a bit down, watching a group of guys, including my own fiance, follow a girl all over a party. She is not really, objectively, much better looking than I am. She's simply younger, and acts like a silly, cute, bouncy child. I had made a comment about turning 40 this year, and feeling sometimes like...if men are just plain and simple excited over youth=fertility=attraction, I hate that it makes me question my own relationship, it makes me feel like "why bother?" I do not feel meh about my partner. Watching him, and half a dozen other guys, trail around after this young woman, fawning over her and so on...comparing that to how he treats me, it seems like he's relatively "meh" about me, and that doesn't feel good. And unlike some women I know, I did not get my turn being that girl. At that time in my life...well, I was in a bad place. I'll come back to that.
I think he was trying to compliment me by saying that it wasn't that I was unattractive, I was just "intimidating" because I am powerful and connected in our social groups. He said something along the lines that you could look at a wolf and a bunny rabbit and they could both be beautiful, but you feel safe snuggling up to one of them, and the other one scares you. I did not like the implication that this other, younger gal was "prey," nor the feeling he was saying that if a woman deserves respect, she's less appealing because she's scary. Or that the younger gal doesn't deserve respect. Honestly none of it landed in a comfortable place for me.
I guess that one area where I'm willing to say that it pings back to my ex and the issues I've struggled with from then, is that when I was in my 20's, he was threatened by other men and he told me over and over, that no other man can be my friend and they do not respect me, because they all just want to sleep with me. And if I ever dressed in ways that looked feminine or attractive, he'd lecture me and demand to know "who I was dressing like that for" and so on (and I don't mean revealing, I mean...if I even looked nice for work or anything.) Basically if I had any sexual appeal, I was a bad person that did not deserve respect because of the way men think. And their thinking, defines me. So I changed my style, tried to be as sexually invisible as possible, and repressed my sexuality big-time. I actually had fantasies of cutting up my face, because my partner seemed to be sending the message that a sexual me, was not a full person, not deserving of being treated with any respect or humanity at all. And a betrayal just waiting to happen, on top of that.
It took years for me to realize he had no right to speak for men in general, and it was his own feelings of insecurity and feeling threatened by other men talking. But a lot of damage was done. And I'm somewhat sensitive to hearing from men that they cannot simultaneously experience sexual attraction, and respect of a woman as a human or a person, at the same time. That those two concepts are oil and water in a man's brain. I meet plenty of men who say and do otherwise. So no, I do not believe that this is just a "how all men think" thing. I realize it's likely to trigger a feeling because of my own past stuff. Which is why I didn't say anything about it to the guy who said what he did at that party, although I was thinking and feeling some stuff, for sure.
"If you want to hire someone to exploit productively, you hire middle-aged women who are hyper conscientious and who are agreeable, because they'll do everything, they won't take credit for it, and they won't complain. And thats nasty, and I think that happens all the time. So one of the things you have to be careful of, if you're agreeable, is to not be exploited, because you will line up to be exploited."
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