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If you are 28 and have not had a relationship, you need to explore why. That's not a good sign. That's 10+ years of sexual maturity without much to show for it, if you have not racked up a huge number of notches. The worst scenario is a scenario of being that old with no relationship and little to no sexual history.
I don't think it is normal to stop caring about it. It would cause a lot of pain.
If not in therapy already regarding this, start immediately.
The mating environment out there is pretty bad. Dealing with the modern mating environment is enough to cause someone a whole range of significant psychological issues, including PTSD.
No.
There's way more to life than sex and romance.
And this is an example of what I was talking about. "If you haven't been in a relationship after X amount of time, you need therapy."
"The mating environment out there is pretty bad. Dealing with the modern mating environment is enough to cause someone a whole range of significant psychological issues, including PTSD."
If you let it.
Instead of revolving your life around the opposite sex, why not focus on building a life (especially if you are not having any luck with the opposite sex).
And as you said, the mating environment out there is pretty bad. You weren't specific on what you mean by that, but from hearing a lot of men talk about it, I'd say men are not having the time of their lives in dating. And there are a lot of prolonged single men who are in their 30s that have not had a relationship. You can say they need therapy and you may be right (a lot of these people who are single show signs of mental challenges and personality disorders). However, it is not the lack of romance that causes a need for therapy.
Fat chance at suffering trauma just from not getting your pleasure. Reminds me of the idea that a woman would shatter and have a meltdown just because a man said hi to her. Minds are not that fragile.
As a matter of fact, I say this; if your only problem in life is that you are not getting any pleasure from women, then you are doing tons tons tons tons TONS better than me. But I do feel for you who are going through the loneliness. As another poster said and I agree with him on this, A loving committed relationship can do wonders for you (paraphrase). But don't let the lack of such tell you that you are somehow a lesser person for it.
I'm dealing with potentially deadly issues. However, I'm not having issues with women.
It is still the ideal, whether you have made it work for you or not. Married people live longer and are much happier than single people. The fact of some bad anecdotal bad marriages and bad relationships does not change the essential truth that being in love with a partner that you are committed to sharing your life with is the highest form of happiness possible to man. Everything else is “making the best of it”. Existing alone, not being cared about, or cared for, and not caring about and for someone else, is a compromised life. Yes, there are many dysfunctional people who have no hope at this highest and best form of happiness. And that’s sad. But it doesn’t change reality, which is based on our nature as rational and social animals.
The other key plank is productive accomplishment. You can’t be rationally and optimally happy unless you have given your life purpose. Which means doing something you love for a living. And here too, we see people who have put themselves in the position of having crappy jobs. Same as a bad relationship. Doesn’t change the ideal. The ideal being getting paid to do what you love.
The ideal being together with a life partner/spouse who gives a damn whether you live or die and cares about your well-being and agrees to support you to life’s end and vice versa.
Look, there’s no arguing this. Living alone and/or without purpose sucks and is not something to aspire to. It does happen. People die on us. We fail ourselves. There are lots of nasty disagreeable people for whom no one is going to desire to spend much time with. But that doesn’t change the ideal.
The best way to spend this life is doing what you love, and being with someone that you love and loves you back. It’s obvious by simple direct observation of our nature, and the overwhelming empirical evidence that surrounds us.
What I do agree with. Being in a loving relationship is a good thing for two people with the right mind for it. And doing what you love for a living? Heck yeah!!! Sign me up!!!
And I don't think I want to be alone for the rest of my life, either. Temporarily alone so I can grow into the right type of person to be in a relationship. Now, we're in business.
And with the nasty disagreeable people, be ever vigilant, because they come in very appealing forms (see narcissistic relationships).
The right relationship is greater than the sum of it's parts.
Years ago... there was a book titled the Millionaire Next Door...
One common thread is a good marriage... it did not say it was essential but two people working towards the same goal can be amazing... just as the opposite can leave a nuclear wasteland... seen that too.
Some come late to the party and some never at all.
Some come late to the party and some never at all.
This is the best way to put it. I find parties desperately dull, and would politely decline any invitations so I could stay home and read, write, listen to music and generally do as I please without bothering anyone. That's my idea of an ideal.
The right relationship is greater than the sum of it's parts.
Years ago... there was a book titled the Millionaire Next Door...
One common thread is a good marriage... it did not say it was essential but two people working towards the same goal can be amazing... just as the opposite can leave a nuclear wasteland... seen that too.
Some come late to the party and some never at all.
That is what we are talking about when we speak of an “ideal”. It’s the best possible runout. Not everyone can or will experience a fully realized and happy life. In fact, it appears the majority don’t. But it will always be what we strive for. It will always be the “luck” that we hope for. Nobody grows up dreaming about living alone in a 2BR apartment with a dog or a cat or some plants. Not that there isn’t some pleasure and peace in that lifestyle. There is. And it might be enough for many people.
However, that’s just not the objective ideal life and never will be.
I have worked in a hospital for a long time... just about all aspects at one time or another other than Doc or Nurse...
There is something magical and sweet seeing a couple come in hand and hand that has been together a long time... just last week a couple that has been married 70 years... she was having cataract surgery... he was driving her home and they have lived in the same home 65 years...
The twinkle in their eyes and sitting together again hand in hand is something few will ever realize but it does exist.
She said she knew he was the one and he said the same... she is 88 and he is 90... She went on to say they only had cross words once... it was over an election... after which they agreed to never let anything so irrelevant divide them.
It is just not octogenarians… I see similar with couples of all sexes and ages...
I also see those alone that have no one... no children or friends that can help... maybe they all passed away or have problems of their own... that reality can be lonely indeed.
To be fair... we had a 75 year old woman come in a few weeks ago... never been married, no kids... had a career and several from her church came in with her... they were there for her... some were young... they all called her momma Rose... she said it is wonderful being surrounded by love...
Just shows you can still be single and have a huge support group... mostly I see it through Church groups but also with neighbors and nephews and nieces too...
I'm a 28 year old man and I've never had a relationship. When I was in my early 20s, this caused me anxiety and frustation because I thought I was somewhat failing in life.
However, after I turned 25 I started to feel very at peace with my situation. Not only am I aware I will never have a girlfriend, the whole concept of a relationship feels distant and alien to me like I would never belong there.
When friends discuss details of their relationships, sometimes I feel like it's something from another world because it's so far removed from my own daily life.
Oh, it's too bad you feel that way. If you really would like a relationship, try to see it from another angle. I think that one needs to be themselves, develop in their own way and be open to others around them.
You didn't say if you are more introverted, but maybe that is part of it. Though extroverts may draw more attention, being outgoing or feeling confident, if you are in an environment you enjoy and are friendly, you could find others being drawn to you, due to your self-expression, personality, interests.
You may need to focus more on what you like to do, being out and about, allowing things to occur naturally, rather than allowing yourself to focus upon insecurities. As with everything, getting to know the opposite sex or dating takes practice, no matter when one begins doing so.
Bad, abusive and dysfunctional relationships, of which there are many, are far more likely to cause trauma than a lack of relationships. One size does not fit all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dissenter
Romantic love is NOT, I repeat, NOT a need of humans. @ me if you want to but what you are saying is a misinformed opinion and it should be pointed out furiously.
In Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, sex is a base level need on par with food, water, shelter, urination, and defecation. Not having sex is damaging to one's health, just like not eating of defecating would be. It will manifest itself differently, but it is still a problem. Culturally, in the United States, we are doing a poor job addressing the sexlessness crisis. 28% of men of ages 18-30 had no sex in 2018.
The sexless crisis is contributing to the opioid crisis.
Romantic love is a higher level need on Maslow's Hierarchy. No sex and no love is very unhealthy. Getting sex but not having the presence of romantic love is better, but still not great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ312
If you are 28 and have not had a relationship, you need to explore why. That's not a good sign. That's 10+ years of sexual maturity without much to show for it, if you have not racked up a huge number of notches. The worst scenario is a scenario of being that old with no relationship and little to no sexual history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
We should all be out there racking up a huge number of notches?! WTH?!
There is a difference between having 10 years of sexual maturity history with no long term relationships and zero sex compared to a person with 10 years of sexual maturity history who has had sex with 30+ or 50+ people. The person who has an extensive sexual history is going to be more socially well adjusted than the person with zero sex. It takes some social skill for a man to garner 30+ notches in 10 years. He's going to probably have some psychological issues, but preferable ones to deal with compared to the male incel. For a woman, having 30+ notches is going to cause a host of issues, worse than the man of 30+. While there are some female incels, it is a pretty uncommon. Nearly any pre-menopausal woman can have sex with ease. All she needs to do is use a swipe app and arrange a meeting. If swipe apps are too onerous, she could put on a provocative dress and sit in a bar for an hour or two.
If a male has no relationship history in 10 years of sexual maturity, he'd better have a solid notch count in those 10 years. If no relationships from ages 16-26, I would expect at least 20 one night stands or semi-casual flings in that time. That's around 2 sexual partners per year, which shouldn't be a hard threshold to clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJenkins602
"The mating environment out there is pretty bad. Dealing with the modern mating environment is enough to cause someone a whole range of significant psychological issues, including PTSD."
You weren't specific on what you mean by that, but from hearing a lot of men talk about it, I'd say men are not having the time of their lives in dating. And there are a lot of prolonged single men who are in their 30s that have not had a relationship. You can say they need therapy and you may be right (a lot of these people who are single show signs of mental challenges and personality disorders). However, it is not the lack of romance that causes a need for therapy.
Men are not having the time of their lives in dating. In all major U.S. metro areas, there is a surplus of single men relative to single women between ages 18-39.
More men are rootless because they don't have the social network in their city of residence to find dates more easily than massive cold approach or using dating apps due to frequent relocations. These are the men that have it the worst when it comes to dealing with the male surplus.
The surplus becomes even more pronounced if you are using dating apps. Most of the apps have a 70-30 male female split. That's not advantageous for men.
On Tinder, Bumble, and Hinge, any average looking woman or better has a swipe queue of 200+, meaning that she has 200+ men waiting to interact with her. She can have sex with any of the 200+ she chooses. When women wield such power, every interaction with men is devalued. There is massive female ghosting, flaking, and multitudes of bad behavior.
Just because a man isn't using apps to meet women and dealing with females who treat him like dirt because of their self-worth from apps, it isn't much easier in other venues. Technology has hampered social interactions. Most men are reporting night venues as producing diminishing outcomes. Day venues (grocery stores, malls, gym/fitness classes, streets/walking paths, public transportation in selected cities) are also a challenge. Getting a woman to give you more than 1 minute of time during the day to field an approach is getting more difficult by the minute. It's not unusual to have to spend 2-3 hours out at the mall, the grocery store, or on the street/walking path to get in 2 approaches that last 2 minutes or longer, and there's no guarantee of a date from that.
There is a difference between having 10 years of sexual maturity history with no long term relationships and zero sex compared to a person with 10 years of sexual maturity history who has had sex with 30+ or 50+ people. The person who has an extensive sexual history is going to be more socially well adjusted than the person with zero sex. It takes some social skill for a man to garner 30+ notches in 10 years. He's going to probably have some psychological issues, but preferable ones to deal with compared to the male incel. For a woman, having 30+ notches is going to cause a host of issues, worse than the man of 30+. While there are some female incels, it is a pretty uncommon. Nearly any pre-menopausal woman can have sex with ease. All she needs to do is use a swipe app and arrange a meeting. If swipe apps are too onerous, she could put on a provocative dress and sit in a bar for an hour or two.
If a male has no relationship history in 10 years of sexual maturity, he'd better have a solid notch count in those 10 years. If no relationships from ages 16-26, I would expect at least 20 one night stands or semi-casual flings in that time. That's around 2 sexual partners per year, which shouldn't be a hard threshold to clear.
.
Stop with the ridiculousness! In order to be "socially well-adjusted", one doesn't need to collect "notches" on one's belt. Many men (most?) are perfectly content with having had a few partners, or even just a couple of partners, by their late 20's, if at least one of them was an LTR for a few years. I don't even know why we're discussing this, since the OP has said he's happy with things the way they are. He hasn't joined back in to the discussion to say otherwise.
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We should all be out there racking up a huge number of notches?! WTH?!
