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Old 05-01-2020, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
11,650 posts, read 12,941,545 times
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It's a mixed bag and I think it depends on their culture or background. I noticed that some, young heterosexual Southern European and ironically, Middle Eastern guys, especially those with big egos and don't look so bad, have no problem with me, a gay man, complimenting them. I think older guys would be more 'disturbed'.

My cousin, who is as straight as they come, openly told me that he doesn't feel any repulsion towards two guys having sex, although he has no physical attraction towards it. But even saying "hey I am not really disgusted by gay porn" would have others calling you gay when you're not. At times, I believe that the men who are disgusted and uncomfortable by two gay guys might actually have repressed bisexual tendencies. And mind you, I think the same way about gay men who have panic attacks when they see a vagina. They also probably like it and are repressing it. Just saying.

Lesbian porn to me, a gay man, looks pretty sensual and even beautiful. And the idea of a woman fingering herself to orgasm is enticing to observe. Am I straight and am I into women now? Not really. I am just a bit fluid and open-minded, although I will always be emotionally and physically attracted to men. Sexuality is a strange thing. We should stop labelling people so quickly.

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Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
On the contrary the liberal left has insisted for decades homosexuality is nearly if not completely biological -- you know, the whole "born this way" mantra. And yes there's an obvious logical inconsistency with the simultaneous claim "gender is a social construct." But that doesn't stop many of them from trying to run both programs at the same time -- they just flip from one to the other based on which is more socially and politically useful for whatever position they're arguing for at any given time. It's a big reason why more people are getting fed up with LBGTQIABCXYZ activism including many members of the purported LBGTwhatever "community" -- nobody knows what the "rules" are any more because they change seemingly at random with no prior notice.
But it is biological. This has nothing to do with liberalism and leftism. I'm as gay as you are straight.

Mind you, I'm also fed up with the LGBT community today and the idea that there are a thousand genders. So I am with you here. But yours sexuality is something you just cannot change, just like your heterosexuality and your handedness. Is it biological? I don't know. Is it hormonal? Maybe. But I know I cannot stop being gay. Let's not make it a political matter. It's beyond the left or the right.

Even far-leftists SJWs have a strange notion that sexuality is a preference, where they would call lesbians "bigoted" because they don't want to have sexual relations with transwomen who hadn't had bottom surgery, or in other words, 'shemales'. They also think that genital preference is a choice. Let's not be like them.

Last edited by Ethereal; 05-01-2020 at 09:43 AM..
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Old 05-01-2020, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,361 posts, read 14,636,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle View Post
I can't believe you have a "background" in psychology, yet you think it's ok to base your conclusions about homosexuality on the thoughts and behaviors of ONE person you knew 30 years ago.

Maybe his dislike of women had nothing to do with him being gay but was just him being a jerk? You can't seriously think that one person should be the representative for a large group.
THANK YOU. As Ruth once said, "The Bird is the Word."

Judging the psychology by one, or even a few, even several, examples, of a pretty large group of very diverse human beings, is completely bananas. That's part of my itchiness around "labels." People who really (for reasons I just don't get) feel a need to be like, "OK you have that label, I'm gonna sort you into that box, and because I knew someone once who had that same label and I put into that same box, I DEMAND to be utterly safe in my assumptions about you, in terms of everything you think, feel, say, do, and are."

To the point that said person who has designated themselves the Sorting Authority of Humans, will flat out argue with someone over their own identity and what's going on inside your head. Oh, no, you are not permitted to think for yourself. My assumptions are more valid than your right to live as your own person. GET BACK IN YOUR BOX!

Sorry but people need ta get the heck out with that nonsense.

And the field of psychology has not operated that way in a really long time, unless you're talking about...I dunno, therapists following outdated models or maybe some of the agenda driven faith based counselors out there. There has been a lot of progress, especially in the evolution of sexual psychology models, since the 1980s when NB's friend died of AIDS (and my condolences to you, NB, for that loss.)

But if we want to put down some qualifications? Not only have I read a lot on this subject, and had some classes and studied psychology and in particular the sexual side of it as a personal interest, I have attended conventions where it was all classes for several days, taught by world famous sex educators, I've run discussion groups and workshops, and I help run an alt-lifestyle club based on Leather culture (rooted in gay Leather but it has evolved to be more inclusive these days) and with very strong ties to the LGBTQ+ community. I participate in Pride events, volunteer, work fundraising events to support the LGBTQ+ community and contribute my time, effort and funds to related charities. I have traipsed across the line of orientation a handful of times, myself, and have dozens of Q friends, and interact with them regularly to this day (literally, we have a Zoom event tonight.) In fact one of the aforementioned world famous authors/educators that I've learned from in classes, was going to officiate my wedding before CV-19 threw a wrench into our works.

I would elaborate on some of the classes and workshops I've been a part of, activities I've been involved in, and things I have seen, but again...and I cannot stress this enough...we really are NOT supposed to be discussing sex acts in explicit detail in here. This is a "PG-13" forum by design. I'm trying to respect TOS and would remind others to be mindful of that.

So back to subject?

I do think that it is more socially acceptable for women to be with women, than for men being with men. I think, though, that our society prioritizes men's comfort and discomfort over that of women, as a historically established and oft reinforced norm. (Per the old, women need to hide our bodies, so as not to cause men to struggle with desire that they might not be able to easily gratify thing.) Now if you consider men's sexuality throughout a human history rife with wars, invasions and hostile takeovers... Men would rape the conquered women often enough, taking over via seeding their own genetics into the oppressed people. Yes, women sometimes rape men, especially if you consider the wider spectrum of consent violations, but it's not quite as common, nor quite the same. Men's sexuality can, in a basic, natural, and often unfortunate sense, be seen as a THREAT. Just a natural threat. Like they come equipped with a natural "weapon," to subjugate, invade and oppress other people with. (Prison, for another example.) Men are more aggressive and more violent, sexually and otherwise.

Not to mention that men often grow up with the competitive mindset, to a degree bordering on hypervigilance, to have to assess other men for threat potential just moving through the world.

Women on the other hand, and femininity, are often framed as passive, soft, receiving. Historically (and sometimes currently) women are infantalized, seen as sweet and harmless. Female sexuality is a soft and mysterious but not very threatening thing.

Your basic historical man could rightly be expected to see the sexuality of other men as a potential vector of attack, and the idea of women being sexual together as a kind of pastel, giggling, harmless fluffy child-creatures, innocently frolicking. Play. Certainly not threatening. If anything, enticing, as perhaps he could mate with them both/all!

Now, in the present day, where one hopes we're more rational than that, and have more respect for our fellow human beings, more intelligent autonomy, and for crying out loud more validation of female sexuality (women have orgasms? whatever for? lol) it would be great to expect for any evo-bio historical lizard brain programming to take a serious back seat to logical thinking. But we are, after all, animals...and while we might know better, when it comes to some of the impulses that shape social normative behavior and expectations, we're still carrying that baggage. Particularly in more traditionalist, rural, or conservative population groups where clinging to ideologies from past generations is seen as virtuous.

So while I can't really excuse the tendency that straight men have, to be the more loud and obvious examples of horror, disgust, or condemnation of homosexuality (but only if it's men)...I can rather certainly understand it, or point to pretty likely origins for it.

Oh...and nobodysbusiness...if you think for one second that straight men don't fetishize body parts the way that gay men do, I've got a bridge to sell you. Just saying.

Last edited by Sonic_Spork; 05-01-2020 at 10:25 AM..
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Old 05-01-2020, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,595,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
And you just completely dismissed what my good, gay friend told me about his sexuality, and the sexuality of his friends - because I am a female (and I am guessing you're gay and have that anti-vagina repulsion).
You know as much about me as you know about gay people.

You honestly sound like you were born in 1910 and read three Psychology Today articles and have come to think you're a thought leader on homosexuality.

Anti-vagina repulsion? Is that a technical term? Do you shorten it to AVR when speaking with others?

LMAO at the stupidity of it all!!
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Old 05-01-2020, 09:48 AM
 
Location: In the bee-loud glade
5,573 posts, read 3,345,258 times
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On a more PG13 level, a friend of mine who is gay once said that choices gay men or women make regarding the acts they engage in varies, but for him and most of the men and women he knew, gay or straight, it came down to who they want to be held by. In whose arms they feel comfortable and cared for. Made sense to me.

The discussion of penises and butt sex may be a bit of a diversion.

Last edited by homina12; 05-01-2020 at 10:18 AM..
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Old 05-01-2020, 09:53 AM
 
19,603 posts, read 12,206,783 times
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Originally Posted by Toxic Waltz View Post
Women are so beautiful that it's easy to understand how even some women would be attracted to them.
I find some women attractive, like I find some art attractive but I'm not attracted to any woman, in that way.
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Old 05-01-2020, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
29,737 posts, read 34,357,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12 View Post
On a more PG13 level, a friend of mine who is gay once said that choices gay men or women make regarding the acts they engage in varies, but for him and most of the men and women he knew, gay or straight, it came down to who they want to be held by. In whose arms they feels comfortable and cared for. Made sense to me.

The discussion of penises and butt sex may be a bit of a diversion.
It is an interesting blockage, psychologically, though. Believing that the gays do weird and dangerous sex stuff probably makes it easier for people to discriminate or dismiss the humanity of a group of people. Accepting that sure, some gay people just want to sleep around (as do some straight people) and others are looking for a nice partner to settle down with (just like straight people) is difficult for some to grasp because it doesn't fit whatever narrative they'd like to believe.

Last edited by fleetiebelle; 05-01-2020 at 10:17 AM..
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Old 05-01-2020, 10:51 AM
 
Location: interior Alaska
6,895 posts, read 5,855,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
It's basic. Take gay males. Many of them, at base, dislike females
Dude, many straight males dislike females, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
But if they have the vagina handy, why would they prefer the butt? That was my question.
I'm not sure how I got to be the sex explainer here but surely you've noticed that many people get a big thrill out of doing things that are in some way forbidden, outre, or transgressive. And in practical terms, hey, no risk of pregnancy.

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Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
This sort of dumb question because it's all related to how the animal kingdom works. Lions have harems they rarely share their females while the females are ok with competing for affection of the alpha male. That's why it's ingrained into the male DNA, if we weren't programmed that way we wouldn't be interested in females.
And male seahorses carry the babies and male penguins choose a single lifelong mate. You're not a lion.

Our closest animal relatives are bonobos and chimps. If you want to claim that you're acting like a bonobo, I guess that's cool. Male bonobos stay with their mothers their entire lives.

Quote:
We'll just hangout with guys and forget about women since women are actually not fun to be around with. The only reason guys enjoy being around with women so they can court them and have their affection.
Remember what I was saying above about straight males disliking women, too? Exhibit A.
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Old 05-01-2020, 10:54 AM
 
15,637 posts, read 26,242,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
I don't know if he specifically explained why. I would have to go back to the letters.

As for my speculation as to why . . . I am not sure . . .it's very complicated because many gay men are very close to their mothers and love their mothers - and mothers have vaginas. Maybe they have "*****/Madonna syndrome?" And they also like female friends . . . it's just the thought of sex with females that literally repulses them - I have seen them gag talking about the idea of it.

And on the other hand, they LOVE penises.

Even heterosexual women who enjoy intercourse with males don't necessarily RAVE about penises night and day.

And most women are not crazy about giving oral sex, but gay men seem to love it.

I honestly don't know, but I find it fascinating.

There is a theory that gay people reincarnated from the opposite sex too soon and have confusion due to that (you can find the theory online).

EDITED TO ADD: My friend and his friends did not dislike females on a surface level - it seemed to be on a deep, core level - maybe attraction and repulsion simultaneously.
I worked with a woman who slept with anything with a penis. Anything. That was just how she was made. She had many many partners. And when she talked about women and men, she could not differentiate her experience with anyone else’s. In other words she looked at the world through her own lens.

My thinking is we all kind of do that, but she would look at me, a faithful married woman, and knew that I was having it off with everybody else because “that’s just how we’re made“. There was no way she could accept that I was faithful to my husband and that my husband was faithful to me. It just wasn’t possible to her because that’s not how she worked in her world.

The reason I bring this up is, I think your friend was one of those kind of people. And unfortunately that may have colored your perception of how this works. Because I’ve known gay men and they’re not like that. They’re not disgusted by vaginas. It’s just not what they want.
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Old 05-01-2020, 11:00 AM
 
Location: planet earth
8,620 posts, read 5,645,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle View Post
I can't believe you have a "background" in psychology, yet you think it's ok to base your conclusions about homosexuality on the thoughts and behaviors of ONE person you knew 30 years ago.

Maybe his dislike of women had nothing to do with him being gay but was just him being a jerk? You can't seriously think that one person should be the representative for a large group.
I am not able to convey the nature of what my friend and his friends taught me.

My friend "liked" females - but simultaneously, there was this core revulsion that would be expressed . . . I am not sure how he or his friends would categorize it.
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Old 05-01-2020, 11:04 AM
 
Location: planet earth
8,620 posts, read 5,645,470 times
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Originally Posted by Frostnip View Post
Dude, many straight males dislike females, too.



I'm not sure how I got to be the sex explainer here but surely you've noticed that many people get a big thrill out of doing things that are in some way forbidden, outre, or transgressive. And in practical terms, hey, no risk of pregnancy.



And male seahorses carry the babies and male penguins choose a single lifelong mate. You're not a lion.

Our closest animal relatives are bonobos and chimps. If you want to claim that you're acting like a bonobo, I guess that's cool. Male bonobos stay with their mothers their entire lives.



Remember what I was saying above about straight males disliking women, too? Exhibit A.
Ok . . . that point is key - patriarchy and unconscious misogyny.
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