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Old 08-09-2023, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
29,755 posts, read 34,444,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Why do you object/disapprove of what other folks feel or believe? That, in and of itself, is a ‘judgment’.

That said, no one should have to see it, in the same way they don’t see my girlfriend and I having sex either, as what two consenting persons do behind closed doors is their business. I’m several years older than she is, and there are folks who judge that in this forum as well; in other words, everyone is judged at some point i.e. gay persons are most certainly not the only ones, as you (biasly) indicate.

Hence, relative to psychological health and the forum, it’s about acceptance of one’s self (as well as others).
Sonic can surely speak for herself, but she's referring to the situations where a gay couple walking down the street holding hands gets the "why do they have to shove their sex life down our throats?" commentary, when a straight family with 2.5 children (who are living proof of the couple's sex life) don't receive that vitriol. Lots of people do all kinds of things behind closed doors, but we are living in a strange time, politically, when people's icky feelings can and do affect real policy and real lives.
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Old 08-09-2023, 12:42 PM
 
Location: The Piedmont of North Carolina
6,089 posts, read 2,871,705 times
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I think so. I was twelve when I learned that some men are attracted to other men the same way I was attracted to women. I was repulsed at the thought of one man kissing another man. I still don't want to see that. Seeing a man and a woman kissing doesn't bother me. And, even seeing two women kissing doesn't bother me. I honestly couldn't don't know why. It probably has something to do with the fact that I am very much attracted to women and not men.

Now, I haven't read through this thread, but I imagine there's some gay-bashing. Homosexuality is not a normal human behavior. Heterosexuality is a normal human behavior. But, that doesn't mean that either heterosexuality or homosexuality is right or wrong, as what is right and what is wrong is subjective.
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Old 08-09-2023, 01:35 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,714 posts, read 3,893,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle View Post
Lots of people do all kinds of things behind closed doors, but we are living in a strange time, politically, when people's icky feelings can and do affect real policy and real lives.
Yeah, I agree; however, this is a Psychology Forum. As such, from my perspective, how one handles judgment (or feels about themselves/others) is more relevant to this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
But I really do object to acting as though gay people are the ones, the only ones, deserving of that whole "I don't wanna see it, ew yuck too sexual" judgment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle View Post
Sonic can surely speak for herself, but she's referring to the situations where a gay couple walking down the street holding hands gets the "why do they have to shove their sex life down our throats?" commentary, when a straight family with 2.5 children (who are living proof of the couple's sex life) don't receive that vitriol.
No matter the scenario, point still being, gays are not the only ones to be judged relative to sexuality; consider folks who are obese, unattractive, socially awkward, and so on. We make those judgments regularly throughout our lives, and no one is immune. As I mentioned previously, I’m several years older than my girlfriend, and that’s often met with scorn/judgment in CD whereas the subject of older women/younger men doesn’t seem to garner anywhere near as much objection. Another example is masculinity/femininity; everyone has an opinion about that as well. It is what it is; and, if one is psychologically well, it doesn’t matter, as long as you are confident/happy in who you are. Is that not the point?
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Old 08-09-2023, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,417 posts, read 14,701,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Yeah, I agree; however, this is a Psychology Forum. As such, from my perspective, how one handles judgment (or feels about themselves/others) is more relevant to this thread.





No matter the scenario, point still being, gays are not the only ones to be judged relative to sexuality; consider folks who are obese, unattractive, socially awkward, and so on. We make those judgments regularly throughout our lives, and no one is immune. As I mentioned previously, I’m several years older than my girlfriend, and that’s often met with scorn/judgment in CD whereas the subject of older women/younger men doesn’t seem to garner anywhere near as much objection. Another example is masculinity/femininity; everyone has an opinion about that as well. It is what it is; and, if one is psychologically well, it doesn’t matter, as long as you are confident/happy in who you are. Is that not the point?
It would be the point, if (as fleetiebelle said) those judgments were merely at the level of the odd jerk who thinks that their opinion is more important than it really is. As you ought to well know by now, that stuff rolls off of me, and I don't really take odd opinions all that personally. I mean. I know yours on any number of things...please don't mistake engagement for actually giving a damn.

But when we deal with things in society where people try to back up their opinion with such statements as what "God wants" and what is "natural" versus "unnatural" ...when it gets to questions of who should be permitted to, say, marry or adopt kids... When you are not a perv if you're a man married to a woman no matter WHAT the two of you may be doing, but same sex couples have been subject to an assumption that there is no limit to what deviant behavior they might get up to, by total strangers with opinions and squicky little feelings... There are far too many people in this country (let alone other countries where homosexuality can get you a death penalty) whose mere "judgments" are in fact harmful.

In a general sense, yeah, you bet I will push back vocally and consistently against those judgments and ideas every chance I get. And as you say...if you don't like that, it's your problem. Your "judgment" does not bother me, particularly as I've got the privilege to not be particularly harmed by it. I won't stop saying my piece in an effort to get people to see the reasonableness of a "live and let live" perspective.

Importantly though, it goes both ways. I've had plenty to say to my LGBTQ+ friends about some of the more deliberately provocative behavior that they've engaged in, that I do not personally believe helps the cause. We can be considerate of others without baring our throats or giving ground on fair and equal treatment.

Bear in mind though? My responses are not really for you. You might make a point worth responding to in here in a way I may find productive for other readers but I am not interested in a never-ending round and round of nit-picky semantic arguments, passive aggressive jabs and feints, or baits to get me re-typing my sentiments to get you to "get it" when you are really just being a crap-stirrer. Been there, done that, donated the t-shirt to Goodwill.
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Old 08-09-2023, 03:03 PM
 
Location: In the bee-loud glade
5,573 posts, read 3,353,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Yeah, I agree; however, this is a Psychology Forum. As such, from my perspective, how one handles judgment (or feels about themselves/others) is more relevant to this thread.





No matter the scenario, point still being, gays are not the only ones to be judged relative to sexuality; consider folks who are obese, unattractive, socially awkward, and so on. We make those judgments regularly throughout our lives, and no one is immune. As I mentioned previously, I’m several years older than my girlfriend, and that’s often met with scorn/judgment in CD whereas the subject of older women/younger men doesn’t seem to garner anywhere near as much objection. Another example is masculinity/femininity; everyone has an opinion about that as well. It is what it is; and, if one is psychologically well, it doesn’t matter, as long as you are confident/happy in who you are. Is that not the point?
Maybe the expressed judgments relative to sexuality are all examples of people ignoring the better angels of their natures. We inflict a lot of damage on each other through those judgments, and gay or non-binary men and women get an especially intense and cruel dose of judgment. Sometimes a deadly dose.

And while I certainly include obese people, unattractive people, socially awkward people, and people in age gap relationships among those who we could and should leave TF alone, gay men and women can be gay and possess any or all of those other qualities that make people targets or objects of derision. So maybe we should do psychological triage and start with people who are likely the most afflicted.
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Old 08-09-2023, 04:19 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,714 posts, read 3,893,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12 View Post
Maybe the expressed judgments relative to sexuality are all examples of people ignoring the better angels of their natures. We inflict a lot of damage on each other through those judgments, and gay or non-binary men and women get an especially intense and cruel dose of judgment. Sometimes a deadly dose.
A ‘deadly dose’ is speaking to another matter entirely. The point is, homosexuality is legal (as is having an opinion about such).

Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12 View Post
And while I certainly include obese people, unattractive people, socially awkward people, and people in age gap relationships among those who we could and should leave TF alone, gay men and women can be gay and possess any or all of those other qualities that make people targets or objects of derision. So maybe we should do psychological triage and start with people who are likely the most afflicted.
That said, my point is judgments are part of life, particularly relative to our choices in a sexual partner (and should be); I want a sexual partner who is/was equally selective. We can’t control what other people think; but to your bolded point above, we can control/prevent damage in ourselves as a result of such by having a firm grasp of, and confidence in, who we are (and what we project). If one has to pop-off at every perceived indignation (real or imagined), it’s obviously just as much about them (and uncontrollable anger) as it is the persons who feel entitled to directly harass/express negative feelings about something that does not affect them.

Hence, I can be repulsed by the thought of sex with a man or an obese/unattractive woman, for that matter; it does not mean I’m repulsed by them, as persons. They have the same rights I do (and will get from me the same amount of respect they show to others).
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Old 08-10-2023, 08:33 AM
nng
 
695 posts, read 290,076 times
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I've noticed that with straight women they compliment each other are very touchy feely with one another and people know it's just the way they are, someone like me couldn't get away with it. It would be awkward. With men, it's like a red line straight men are not really allowed to express their thoughts on another man's appearance in a positive way or he'll immediately be labeled bi or gay. Someone mentioned lesbians to be repulsed by men, but I don't think it's men necessarily they are repulsed by its those men's views on issues. Some men have antifeminist viewpoints which does **** a lot of feminist minded lesbians off. Then there is the sex repulsed lesbian. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the sex repulsed lesbian is repulsed by a man's actual anatomy. Feels its disgusting or repulsive etc.
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Old 08-10-2023, 08:33 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,627 posts, read 28,732,432 times
Reputation: 25225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
In a general sense, yeah, you bet I will push back vocally and consistently against those judgments and ideas every chance I get. And as you say...if you don't like that, it's your problem. Your "judgment" does not bother me, particularly as I've got the privilege to not be particularly harmed by it. I won't stop saying my piece in an effort to get people to see the reasonableness of a "live and let live" perspective.
I am not interested in watching a movie with my family that inserts subtle "homosexual" romantic scenes.

That is not in agreement with my sense of morality, and that is not live and let live.

So, that is where I draw the line.
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Old 08-10-2023, 08:54 AM
nng
 
695 posts, read 290,076 times
Reputation: 696
I want to add to my above post that it's not just lesbians who can be sex repulsed, it can be asexuals too, speaking from personal experience. A Sex repulsed lesbian/asexual will often feel that a mens anatomy is repulsive, that women who want men sexually are disgusting the fact that women want a Man's private part is gross a person who feels sex repulsed will feel degraded and disgusted by the thought of it.Often times, a sex repulsed asexual or lesbian with feel that straight women will never be down with people like us that straight women will never ever fully support female liberation and empowerment do to love for a man's P. I can only speak for myself, other asexual or lesbian women might feel differently. And you always find yourself thinking that straight women are liable to backstabbing people like us/me in the back because of their attraction for men. I often feel that I will never relate to other women due to most women's attraction for men. So there is a lot of bitterness there. Not anger but just bitterness.
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Old 08-10-2023, 09:00 AM
nng
 
695 posts, read 290,076 times
Reputation: 696
I think the only ones who can relate to my mindset is a radical feminist and or lesbian. They seem to be the ones that sympathize and truly get it. I even was reading a post on an anonymous internet forum that lesbians are the only true feminists and the only ones I respect when it comes to so called feminism. And I understand that viewpoint and sympathize with it, but we've got to give credit where credit is due, straight women have contributed to feminism and fought for our rights.
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