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Old 08-10-2023, 09:24 AM
 
Location: In your head
1,075 posts, read 552,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I am not interested in watching a movie with my family that inserts subtle "homosexual" romantic scenes.

That is not in agreement with my sense of morality, and that is not live and let live.

So, that is where I draw the line.
Choosing to be bigoted or xenophobic or homophobic is in fact an example of "live and let live".

Generally speaking, as long as you don't turn that into hate speech or acting aggressively towards those classes of people, it's not going to get you in a whole lot of trouble. Maybe judged by some, but not necessarily in trouble.
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Old 08-10-2023, 09:31 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,549 posts, read 28,636,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nng View Post
I think the only ones who can relate to my mindset is a radical feminist and or lesbian. They seem to be the ones that sympathize and truly get it. I even was reading a post on an anonymous internet forum that lesbians are the only true feminists and the only ones I respect when it comes to so called feminism. And I understand that viewpoint and sympathize with it, but we've got to give credit where credit is due, straight women have contributed to feminism and fought for our rights.
The vast majority of female humans are simply not genetically lesbian.

So, it seems to me like you have a problem with the human species in general.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Old 08-10-2023, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,364 posts, read 14,640,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I am not interested in watching a movie with my family that inserts subtle "homosexual" romantic scenes.

That is not in agreement with my sense of morality, and that is not live and let live.

So, that is where I draw the line.
OK, but here is a question for you...are you OK with watching a movie with your family that has heterosexual sex scenes? Like hot and heavy "they are definitely having sex right now" type scenes? Because if there are kids in the room, I'm not comfortable with that, either.

And sure I guess if seeing two men holding hands makes you uncomfortable, you can try to avoid that and it is certainly your business. But then behind that...are you angry that it exists in a movie at all? The issue people have is, if your framing of your "moral" or religious or whatever perspective is centered on you and your own choices, then that is one thing. But when it gets to the part of, "I don't like this so I'm entitled to a world that is completely free of it, and others should live their lives around my feelings on it"...like that is what's led to a ton of persecution throughout human history and I do believe that western cultures are trying to move away from that. Like in the past, and in certain parts of the world, it's literally "we don't agree so we have to try violence and force until one mindset utterly dominates and eradicates the other" and that's just...endless misery for everybody. And it never works. The more we can reach a place of "OK that's not for me, but I can deal with the existence of people who do it so long as they don't insist I participate"...the more we can all get on with living our lives in peace. With of course the caveat that no one is harmed in the process.

Can you understand that as much as you might not want homosexuality shoved in your face, perhaps LGBTQ+ people may not want your heterosexuality shoved in theirs constantly? That's the issue with seeing it as "normal" versus "abnormal." And there is, by the way, no support cross species of creatures on this earth for the idea that non-reproductive sex is "unnatural." Tons of creatures do it. And most sex being had by even the most straight of couples, is with precautions against conception being elaborately contrived, so I'd say that non-reproductive sex is pretty normal and even natural to want. Most people are not trying for a baby or wanting to make one, every single time they have sex.

And you or anybody is free to care what your preferred religious text has to say about it...but you don't get to tell others that we must care about that. Not in a nation founded on freedom of religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nng View Post
I want to add to my above post that it's not just lesbians who can be sex repulsed, it can be asexuals too, speaking from personal experience. A Sex repulsed lesbian/asexual will often feel that a mens anatomy is repulsive, that women who want men sexually are disgusting the fact that women want a Man's private part is gross a person who feels sex repulsed will feel degraded and disgusted by the thought of it.Often times, a sex repulsed asexual or lesbian with feel that straight women will never be down with people like us that straight women will never ever fully support female liberation and empowerment do to love for a man's P. I can only speak for myself, other asexual or lesbian women might feel differently. And you always find yourself thinking that straight women are liable to backstabbing people like us/me in the back because of their attraction for men. I often feel that I will never relate to other women due to most women's attraction for men. So there is a lot of bitterness there. Not anger but just bitterness.
Wow... Do you truly believe that the love a het or bi woman has for sex with a man would be enough to make us not support female empowerment or liberation? That's a pretty wild idea. I mean, consider this... For so long, men tried to act as though a woman's guarding of her sexual access was key to her value as a person, that contact with a man's junk had the power to change one of us forever. Only virgins are good brides, sexual experience taints you as a person, all that ridiculousness. I would suggest that any given "P" does not have that kind of power, necessarily, over any one of us. And what I see here is a lot of internalization of that stuff. I would argue that an empowered woman could have fun with a male partner BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO and that no, his ~thang~ does not have some earth shattering power over her. To me, as a bi person, I don't really care about body parts. I care about who an individual is, what is in their mind...a whole person of any gender is either attractive or not, and sexual pleasure is something that we may decide we wish to explore or not, and if we do, we can have fun with whatever parts there are. I don't chase people because of their junk. I mean sheesh, whatever one is packing, only half the other humans on planet earth have the same thing, it's hardly the most interesting or important part about any given person, in my opinion. My pants-parts are not what I want others to use as a metric to define me, either.

Kinda the reason I avoid the label of "feminist" despite agreeing with many of the points of it...it really means so many different things to so many different people. I'd rather just explain what I think in any particular context. Do you believe that all men are bad people as individuals, or committed to keeping women from our full potential? Because I beg to differ.

Like I get a sense of anger or bitterness about the overall systemic stuff. I do. But to say that you cannot trust any woman who has enjoyed sex with a man is a pretty extreme view, in my opinion.

But you know...even still...I would ask a question here. How many times in history, or even in American history, has disgust felt by a man led to physical violence, even killing? Then...how often does a woman's disgust lead her to commit violence and killing upon anyone? Has your feeling of disgust made you feel impulses to violent acts against men or women who like being with men? I know that I personally used to hear fairly often from straight men, that if some gay dude ever mistakenly "hit on them" or something they would rush to inflict violence. It seemed almost like a fantasy that one day they might get the chance to play out. I don't hear it much these days but growing up in the 80s and 90s? Oh yeah. All the time.
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Old 08-10-2023, 11:42 AM
 
Location: In your head
1,075 posts, read 552,765 times
Reputation: 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post

And you or anybody is free to care what your preferred religious text has to say about it...but you don't get to tell others that we must care about that. Not in a nation founded on freedom of religion.
Bingo! You just nailed one of the most monumental problems our country is facing today. We have one boisterous and outspoken minority group (that is dwindling in population) trying to dictate the norms of our society to the rest of us. They are attempting to do this by usurping the power of voters in a democracy, too, by establishing political institutions (that should be non-political) that uphold their minority beliefs. They have attempted to do this through gerrymandering. They have also attempted to do this through voter suppression.
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Old 08-10-2023, 10:08 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,659 posts, read 3,853,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalUID View Post
We have one boisterous and outspoken minority group (that is dwindling in population) trying to dictate the norms of our society to the rest of us.
To feel repulsed on a personal level is relative to thought; attempting to ‘dictate the norms of our society’ (or an infringement) is an action relative to such i.e. it is another matter entirely. It’s a huge distinction, particularly within the context of a psychology forum.

If a man is repulsed at the thought of having sex with (who he considers to be) an obese or otherwise unattractive woman - is he, too, ‘trying to dictate the norms of society’? To the contrary, a passing thought (whether expressed or not) does nothing of the sort. What if a gay person is repulsed at the thought of having heterosexual sex with an obese person; in your opinion, are they ‘trying to dictate the norms of society’ as well? The reality of such, logically, is that it would be expected to some degree (on both sides) relative to one’s sexual orientation and the type of person they find sexually appealing, as a whole.
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Old 08-11-2023, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,364 posts, read 14,640,743 times
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BEHAVIORAL psychology.

When a feeling or a thought is reinforced to the solidity of a belief, you get a whole package of behavior along with it, particularly if one justifies it with what they consider to be social norms (power, really) and tries to enforce it upon other people. If thoughts and feelings occurred in a silent vacuum in one's own mind, never expressed in word or deed, then would we even need the field of psychology? We wouldn't have any idea what anyone else was thinking or feeling, were it not expressed.

I've certainly known homosexual people who were repulsed by the idea of heterosexual sex.

I have also known straight women who were repulsed by the idea of homosexual sex.

The difference is that I have not heard much in terms of folks from those demographics wanting to personally inflict violence or oppression (behavior - words, acts) on people who are doing the thing that causes them to feel that way. Straight men, who have traditionally had most of the social power and privilege relative to the other groups here, have been the ones usually whose disgust became a problem for others. Including, too, internalized shame and disgust felt by closeted gay/bi men pretending to be straight, who had self loathing and so hypocritically engaged in secret activity while at the same time loudly preaching for hate and punishment of those living openly gay lives. (The Ted Haggards of this world.)

Interesting to contemplate that perhaps the disgust felt is not the real problem. More the issue is the entitled mentality that leads one to believe they deserve a life free from anything that might trigger their unpleasant feelings, even if they had the ability all along to turn away. A person who, unable to exert control over their own mind, then feels entitled to try to exert it over the world around them instead.

What gives a person such a belief? I would say, power, privilege, the desire to experience more of those things, perhaps a feeling of comfort and belonging within an authoritative system where a high degree conformity is enforced? Fear engendered of the idea that being permissive of those who break social "rules" and norms that they believe in, is a threat to their way of life? Then you bring the dynamic of parental fears relative to their children into it... I think that some parents are much more concerned than others with a belief that they must control the developmental paths of their offspring to herd them towards a specific outcome in life, sometimes using a high degree of authoritative action.
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Old 08-11-2023, 09:33 AM
 
Location: In your head
1,075 posts, read 552,765 times
Reputation: 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
To feel repulsed on a personal level is relative to thought; attempting to ‘dictate the norms of our society’ (or an infringement) is an action relative to such i.e. it is another matter entirely. It’s a huge distinction, particularly within the context of a psychology forum.

If a man is repulsed at the thought of having sex with (who he considers to be) an obese or otherwise unattractive woman - is he, too, ‘trying to dictate the norms of society’? To the contrary, a passing thought (whether expressed or not) does nothing of the sort. What if a gay person is repulsed at the thought of having heterosexual sex with an obese person; in your opinion, are they ‘trying to dictate the norms of society’ as well? The reality of such, logically, is that it would be expected to some degree (on both sides) relative to one’s sexual orientation and the type of person they find sexually appealing, as a whole.
We're not talking about the same things. My response was in relation to Sonic's commentary on our nation's stance on freedom of religion and how it relates to ascribing our beliefs unto others.

If you want to be repulsed, be repulsed, and do it in the privacy of your own home. I literally do not care.
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Old 08-11-2023, 02:29 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,659 posts, read 3,853,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalUID View Post
If you want to be repulsed, be repulsed, and do it in the privacy of your own home.
Too funny. The only thing I’m repulsed by are those who feel entitled to continually speak to/bulldoze (or assume they know and/or object to) others’ opinions - in a Psychology Forum, no less. It’s not up to you (or any of us); a huge part of one’s psychological health is relative to such.
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Old 08-11-2023, 02:44 PM
 
Location: In your head
1,075 posts, read 552,765 times
Reputation: 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Too funny. The only thing I’m repulsed by are those who feel entitled to continually speak to/bulldoze (or assume they know and/or object to) others’ opinions - in a Psychology Forum, no less. It’s not up to you (or any of us); a huge part of one’s psychological health is relative to such.
You misinterpreted the first post (of mine) that you responded to, and now you seem to be doubling down on your attachment to my comments.

Do you normally have trouble discerning the literal from the figurative?

When I say 'if you want to be repulsed by it', I don't mean that Corporate Cowboy is repulsed by it. I mean 'if a person wants to be repulsed by it' then they have every right to do that in the privacy of their own home.

Do you understand this difference between my figurative use of 'you' and the literal 'you' as in 'you, Corporate Cowboy'? Do you also understand that I'm literally stating that I don't care if someone chooses to be repulsed by certain sexual behaviors? That means I'm okay with it despite whether I agree with it.

Once you wrap your mind around these clarifications, let me know if you still think it still constitutes as "bulldozing" others' opinions.

I've also noted how you like to, in your cunning round-about-way, insinuate how other people aren't "psychologically well" whenever they seemingly disagree with your take on something. Interesting. Can you tell us more about how you're qualified to make these assessments by yourself? I presume you must have a PhD in Psychology or an MD in Psychiatry.

Last edited by digitalUID; 08-11-2023 at 03:09 PM..
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Old 08-11-2023, 04:47 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,659 posts, read 3,853,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalUID View Post
When I say 'if you want to be repulsed by it', I don't mean that Corporate Cowboy is repulsed by it. I mean 'if a person wants to be repulsed by it' then they have every right to do that in the privacy of their own home.
Again, my point being, they have every right to feel repulsed (by homosexuality) in their home (or anywhere they want). It’s an odd statement re: ‘in the privacy of their own home’; it’s not up to you (and I do mean you, since you made the statement) to determine where/when it’s okay for anyone to be repulsed by anything.

Why not just state they have a right to their opinion (as they do), and leave it at that (sans the bizarre attempt to qualify it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalUID View Post
Do you understand this difference between my figurative use of 'you' and the literal 'you' as in 'you, Corporate Cowboy'? Do you also understand that I'm literally stating that I don't care if someone chooses to be repulsed by certain sexual behaviors? That means I'm okay with it despite whether I agree with it.
I understand the generic you is a colloquial substitute for one; do you? That said, I didn’t suggest you weren’t okay with others’ thoughts (although you certainly appear to be aggressively confrontational in regard to mine, heh). I was speaking in generalities (rather than copying specific posts to illustrate my point) where some have specifically stated an objection (or even an assumption re: triggers/behavior relative to such).

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalUID View Post
I've also noted how you like to, in your cunning round-about-way, insinuate how other people aren't "psychologically well" whenever they seemingly disagree with your take on something.
To the contrary, I’m the one defending everyone i.e. they are entitled to their opinion, whether I agree or not. I am simply attempting to keep it relevant to the forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalUID View Post
Can you tell us more about how you're qualified to make these assessments by yourself? I presume you must have a PhD in Psychology or an MD in Psychiatry.
Obviously, you know I’m not an MD, or you wouldn’t have just cunningly called me cunning, lol. Basic concepts of psychological health are plastered everywhere (and relative to logical reasoning as well, from my perspective) i.e. who is unaware of self-help or mental fitness in today’s world. However, I certainly don’t claim to know anything about psychiatry (nor need to, in order to have an opinion about psychological health).

That said, if one feels the need to pop-off at folks (particularly in a forum) relative to every perceived indignation (real or imagined), it speaks to their (uncontrolled) anger and is clearly affecting their behavior. As such, it’s not rocket science to know it’s not conducive to one’s psychological health or happiness, as a whole, to react to (or even care about) others’ opinions, especially relative to strangers online.

In other words, if you don’t like (or agree with) my posts, why not ignore them? It brings it back around to the thread and my original point.
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