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Old Yesterday, 12:27 AM
 
5,302 posts, read 5,261,425 times
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It seems that a common thread, both here and elsewhere, is women complaining that their husband is not doing their "fair share" of housework. I think that a big part of this is, at least from my experience, I think that, in general, men are willing to trade a slightly dirtier or more cluttered house in exchange for more free time, while women, in general, are willing to trade less free time in exchange for a cleaner or less cluttered house. I'm not saying either is right or wrong, and I'm a man who definitely prefers more time and is willing to accept a dirtier or more cluttered house in exchange for more free time.

Keep in mind that I'm talking about generalities. I'm well aware that there are people of both genders who do not fit this stereotype.

Why do you think this is? Is it a biological difference between men vs women? Or is it due to differences in how men vs women are raised? Are women more sensitive to dirt and clutter than men for some reason? Do men need more free time than women for whatever reason?

I think that figuring out why this is would help a lot of couples in their frequent disagreements about housework.
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Old Yesterday, 09:07 AM
 
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I don't think it's that men in general tolerate dirt more than women but that they are just beat down from a day at work and don't have the energy to care. And as more women today are also working in those same jobs. they too are experiencing exhaustion at the end of the day. But often still trying to do everything because they've been told the big lie about "having it all." In the past it was a partnership -- one worked outside the home and one inside.

Consider that in general, for the last couple generations as we moved from an agricultural economy to today,

Men: Worked full time outside the home, often at labor jobs, and often longer than a simple "40 hour" week. Then they also did all the mechanical chores around the home -- yard work, painting, maintenance, etc

Women: Esp after the kids were in school did the cooking and cleaning.

The hours required/work expended didn't quite match up, but it was an even trade. Now if both partners are working full time jobs and equally sharing both the outside chores (mowing, maintenance, etc, as well as the inside chores (cooking, cleaning, etc), then that makes sense as a partnership. Where it breaks down is when one partner works full time outside the home, and still does the mechanical maintenance chores and is also now expected to do 50% of the housework chores, then the partnership is no longer a fair trade. .
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Old Yesterday, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
23,936 posts, read 25,872,932 times
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I posted this in your parenting thread, but I'll put it here, too: https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05...houldve-asked/
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Old Yesterday, 09:28 AM
 
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When I was dating, I tended to not become overly attached to guys who seemed to be content to live in their own filth--especially bathroom and kitchen filth. A bit of dust, clutter and the occasional loose sock or towel on the floor weren't deal-breakers, though.

Living or marrying that type of person would have meant that I'd have become the live-in maid by default and I wanted to have no part of that. (I was never the sort of girlfriend who would clean her man's place as well as her own except in rare instances.)

In an odd way, I see how people live as a way of them showing you how they are. It's unlikely that co-habitation will improve ingrained habits if they're used to living in a messy (or organized) home.

My ex-husband kept a fairly neat home prior to our marriage (dishes done,counters clean, toilets not gross, bedsheets changed) although he did have someone come in a few times a month to do a more involved cleaning of the house. After we were married, he was very good about contributing to the household labor, which I chalk up to good childrearing on the part of my in-laws. Never really had any fights or discussions about housework and who was supposed to do what and in what way. It just got done, which was one of the nice things about being married to that man.

My dad also helped out around the house, but I chalk that up to the fact that my grandmother worked outside of the home in an era when it was more typical for women to be homemakers. She didn't have the time or the inclination to pick up after the three men who lived in her house!
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Old Yesterday, 09:39 AM
 
5,302 posts, read 5,261,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I don't think it's that men in general tolerate dirt more than women but that they are just beat down from a day at work and don't have the energy to care. And as more women today are also working in those same jobs. they too are experiencing exhaustion at the end of the day. But often still trying to do everything because they've been told the big lie about "having it all." In the past it was a partnership -- one worked outside the home and one inside.

Consider that in general, for the last couple generations as we moved from an agricultural economy to today,

Men: Worked full time outside the home, often at labor jobs, and often longer than a simple "40 hour" week. Then they also did all the mechanical chores around the home -- yard work, painting, maintenance, etc

Women: Esp after the kids were in school did the cooking and cleaning.

The hours required/work expended didn't quite match up, but it was an even trade. Now if both partners are working full time jobs and equally sharing both the outside chores (mowing, maintenance, etc, as well as the inside chores (cooking, cleaning, etc), then that makes sense as a partnership. Where it breaks down is when one partner works full time outside the home, and still does the mechanical maintenance chores and is also now expected to do 50% of the housework chores, then the partnership is no longer a fair trade. .
I certainly agree with you, but it seems, rightly or wrongly, a lot of women don’t agree.
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Old Yesterday, 10:13 AM
 
15,468 posts, read 977,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
It seems that a common thread, both here and elsewhere, is women complaining that their husband is not doing their "fair share" of housework. I think that a big part of this is, at least from my experience, I think that, in general, men are willing to trade a slightly dirtier or more cluttered house in exchange for more free time, while women, in general, are willing to trade less free time in exchange for a cleaner or less cluttered house. I'm not saying either is right or wrong, and I'm a man who definitely prefers more time and is willing to accept a dirtier or more cluttered house in exchange for more free time.

Keep in mind that I'm talking about generalities. I'm well aware that there are people of both genders who do not fit this stereotype.

Why do you think this is? Is it a biological difference between men vs women? Or is it due to differences in how men vs women are raised? Are women more sensitive to dirt and clutter than men for some reason? Do men need more free time than women for whatever reason?

I think that figuring out why this is would help a lot of couples in their frequent disagreements about housework.

How much filth are you willing to live in? You can always use the toilet at work.
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Old Yesterday, 12:17 PM
 
27,984 posts, read 30,493,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
It seems that a common thread, both here and elsewhere, is women complaining that their husband is not doing their "fair share" of housework. I think that a big part of this is, at least from my experience, I think that, in general, men are willing to trade a slightly dirtier or more cluttered house in exchange for more free time, while women, in general, are willing to trade less free time in exchange for a cleaner or less cluttered house. I'm not saying either is right or wrong, and I'm a man who definitely prefers more time and is willing to accept a dirtier or more cluttered house in exchange for more free time.

Keep in mind that I'm talking about generalities. I'm well aware that there are people of both genders who do not fit this stereotype.

Why do you think this is? Is it a biological difference between men vs women? Or is it due to differences in how men vs women are raised? Are women more sensitive to dirt and clutter than men for some reason? Do men need more free time than women for whatever reason?

I think that figuring out why this is would help a lot of couples in their frequent disagreements about housework.
In general, I agree that men care less about house chores than women do. To answer your questions, yes, it's evolutionary behavior. But it certainly is also influenced by upbringing.

Evolutionary biology also shows that, on average, women worry about being away from their children more than men do.
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Old Yesterday, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Central IL
16,976 posts, read 10,137,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
The hours required/work expended didn't quite match up, but it was an even trade. Now if both partners are working full time jobs and equally sharing both the outside chores (mowing, maintenance, etc, as well as the inside chores (cooking, cleaning, etc), then that makes sense as a partnership. Where it breaks down is when one partner works full time outside the home, and still does the mechanical maintenance chores and is also now expected to do 50% of the housework chores, then the partnership is no longer a fair trade. .
Interesting....I've been on the NextDoor app for awhile and there's always a lot of asking for referrals for various "maintenance" work around the house.

Maybe it's just that women are on social media, but it is almost always women asking for a referral for a plumber, electrician, carpenter, yard work, etc. Their man is NOT doing "their" part of the maintenance work to balance out other household chores. They aren't even doing the asking around to find someone to do it FOR them, or at least not on NextDoor. I dunno, maybe guys just ask a friend at work?
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Old Yesterday, 01:16 PM
 
Location: CT
53 posts, read 11,368 times
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I don’t believe women are inherently neater or more bothered by clutter, but that we are held to a different standard; we (general “we”) tend to view a messy house as a reflection on the woman, so it is more on our radar. Kind of like how my husband sees the state of the yard as a reflection on him, so he’ll notice the grass being a millimeter too high, but not notice the lemonade powder crusting on the counter, or the beard hairs in the sink.
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Old Yesterday, 01:18 PM
 
61 posts, read 6,142 times
Reputation: 108
Speaking for myself, I dumped a guy who was such a stoner he didn't care his dog crapped on the carpet. Like, being a clutterbug is one thing, living in filth is another.

IMO most people go "the family way" when it comes to habits about being clean.

I've also been told wealthy people used to having housekeeping clean their places can be a bit slobbish, but the greater good in that scenario is someone gains employment from someone else's lack of time or desire to clean.
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