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Nobody even seriously believes that whole nonsense about people "living beyond their means". It's just a cowardly way of saying "let nature weed out the poor" without actually having the adequate pair bolted on firmly enough to come out and say it. No one wants to come out and say "let the poor go homeless and starve so we can control the population" because that doesn't sell so well to the public the way that "you're poor because you did it all wrong" does. It's called economic eugenics and social cleansing and is rooted in social Darwinism. We've seen this mentality in Spain and all over Latin America and as far back as Rome and in religious ideologies like Calvinism and also well-known secular causes like population control.
Back in the day they used to just massacre peasants, herd Jewish, gay and Romani people into gas chambers, or massacre native Americans. Nowadays the eugenics crowds have a new tactic: they don't use guns or biological weapons or any direct means of mass murder. They much prefer the appearance of blamelessness. "I didn't shoot that homeless person, Tuburculosis killed them" or or "I didn't bomb that poor child, cancer killed them" or "I didn't gas that low wage Starbucks worker, Coronavirus killed them." Everyone knows that poor people stand a much higher risk of death. It's written right into Capitalism. It's why America has such a crappy lifespan compared to other countries that have things like socialized health care. When was the last time someone in Canada was denied a heart transplant because they couldn't afford it? The whole idea of our modern economic system is to engage in an intentional culture of negligence in hopes that a whole slew of issues aggravated by poverty will cut down on the population of poor people while leaving no one person at fault for their death. And when questions arise, the perfect response comes forth from those who secretly hold economic eugenics beliefs: "Well they lived beyond their means // they got a feminist dance studies major and had no skills // their tech job got outsourced overseas because they couldn't read and write at a college level // they bought too many Lattes." The dead giveaway here is that these people will never allow any scenario where poverty was caused by factors beyond the control of any given poor person. To these people even an orphaned kid on the street should have done better with his life because... <insert story of ten year old orphan millionaire here> and <I was a poor orphan kid on the mean streets of Urban Junkpileistan and look at me now with my yacht>. The other 7 kids out of 10 who either died or are still living in poverty were just pathetic losers.
My point here is when you read someone telling you that the reason someone is in economic dire straights is because they were living too high on the hog and not saving for a rainy day, and you are thinking of refuting their dishonest narrative - stop immediately. The narrative they're throwing at you is not what they are really arguing. They are wanting to tell you "...and I hope this poor fool dies because the poor are a drag on society" but they don't want to catch a forum ban, which if it isn't a guaranteed banning offense right now it certainly will become so once too many people start coming out openly with that line of thinking. They also subconsciously know that if more people start openly saying "poor people should just die" then it really will spark a social democratic revolution in this country, complete with a basic guaranteed income and a health care Public Option.
So please stop it. It's like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
I love that saying. And it will never happen. Because in my opinion, all of this is done because that way we have someone to feel superior to, and it means we don’t have to fix our problems.
I see the exact same reasoning when somebody dies. Somebody dies of cancer means “I won’t get cancer because I eat organic and I don’t smoke… Cigarettes….”. Somebody dies of heart disease, “I won’t get heart disease I walked 2 miles today, and I don’t eat red meat.”
My husband died of a GBM, and the chance a 59 year old male getting a glioblastoma brain tumor is 0.000039%. I think its still harder to win the powerball. There’s an ad you’ll never see- your chance of getting a brain tumor is higher than winning the Powerball!
To illustrate:
Imagine you awaken in a world where everyone is equally credited with 22 billion billion quatloos - a substantial sum - in their bank accounts. No one "needs money." As a newly enriched multi-billionaire, one might kick back and plan to have fun, order some take out, go to a theater and watch a play. However, since everyone else is super "rich" no one bothers to go to work, to make food, perform in theaters, and thus the civilization collapses. Even the starving children are fabulously wealthy.
Money does not work, farm, mine, deliver, or sell goods and services.
If we accept that prosperity is the production, trade and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services, then any productive person should not be impoverished. In any system of equitable trade, a productive person would not lack the “means of support” nor material possessions.
But we witness a reality that is quite different. There are large numbers of unemployed, underemployed, and inefficiently employed people. The usual excuse - “There’s no money to hire them!” illustrates that the problem is in the money system itself. Despite the fact that there is unmet need, unused productive capacity (closed factories, retail outlets), and unemployed people (available labor), the economy is imploding.
Why is the money system the problem?
Money madness inculcates the belief that money has to have an intrinsic value in itself independent of the marketplace of goods and services. Thus we see people rushing about “making money” and trying to “store value” and “save for retirement.” But that is madness.
There is no correlation between the marketplace of goods and services and the value / volume of circulating money tokens. In fact, there usually is a huge demand for "more" money because of the scarcity of money. And that scarcity may enrich the bankers, but it impoverishes the people who lack the medium to facilitate trade of their goods and labor.
Skeptical about the scarcity?
Isn't inflation "too much money chasing too few goods?"
A: There was approximately $1.70 trillion in circulation as of January 31, 2019. This figure includes Federal Reserve notes ($1,655.2 billion), U.S. notes ($0.2 billion), currency no longer issued ($0.2 billion), and coins outstanding ($47.2 billion).
A: update -As of January 8, 2020 there was $1.75 trillion worth of Federal Reserve notes in circulation.
A: update -As of July 8, 2020, there was $1.93 trillion worth of Federal Reserve notes in circulation.
U.S. Population = 329,217,343
Estimated $5,042.26 per capita in circulation (2019)
Estimated $5,862.38 per capita in circulation (2020)
There are people in the States who suffer from food insecurity. Hence the need for free breakfasts and lunches for school kids, and community food pantries. If you mean, no one starves here because of such community efforts, then yes, you are mostly right.
Obesity is not an indicator of the availability of healthy food. It might well mean that someone has eaten cheap, poor quality carbohydrates throughout life.
I do agree that decent paying low skilled jobs have disappeared in recent decades. In fact, jobs are disappearing period. If you have worked retail for the last twenty years, you have likely seen job opportunities disappear. And many people work part time with no benefits. It is bleak out there for many workers.
Right. So now, not only do I have to pay for your food, I have to buy you organic food, too?
OP - Even if we had Universal Basic Income (UBI), we would still end up with "Poor" basic income receivers, and "Rich" basic income receivers. The eventual Rich folks would be those who would save more than others, who simply spend more.
Hypothetically, let's say we took all the money away from every single US resident, and split it equally amongst every resident. Meaning, let's say we can somehow take wealth away from all the billionaires and millionaires, and everyone else, and return to everyone an equal amount...you get the point. Well, after that initial "re-setting of the playing field", fast forward maybe 5-10 years, what do you think will have happened? Do you think we'll end up with a wealth gap again? Should we reset again? Definitive answer is NO. If you answer yes, then you're delusional and lazy, for thinking a small group of people should do all the hard work and make all those hard sacrifices, for the greater good of everyone else. Yeah...riiiiiiight...keep dreamin'.
Pure BS - you have very little understanding of life. Please quit justifying your hatred of those who don't hold your beliefs.
Please stop justifying your hatred of those who aren't rich like you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational
If that's your opening argument then you're in for a LOT more arguing.
It's just dead wrong.
No, I'm not in for a lot of arguing. I'm not interested in buying your lies anymore. I'm just going to start responding by exposing your underlying kill-the-poor agenda. I won't be talking to the likes of you directly ever again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink
Part of the problem in the U.S. is, low-skilled jobs are going away quickly due to automation and outsourcing. the issue is, low-IQ people who require low-skilled jobs are not. Allowing low-IQ people ten extra hours of non-productive time to watch TV and gripe on C-D about how someone's knee is on their neck, certainly does them no good (nor does it help society). So, I think we need to take a cue from the ancient Egyptians, and start building pyramids. Or stop building combines and cotton pickers, and get these folks out into nature, where they can be productive and learn the value of a full day's labor. But the answer is NOT to give them more free stuff without expecting something in return for it.
More lies designed to demonize the majority of workers who will never have a high-paying job no matter how well educated they are and justify why they're starving and/or going homeless. More social Darwinism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallysmom
I love that saying. And it will never happen. Because in my opinion, all of this is done because that way we have someone to feel superior to, and it means we don’t have to fix our problems.
I see the exact same reasoning when somebody dies. Somebody dies of cancer means “I won’t get cancer because I eat organic and I don’t smoke… Cigarettes….”. Somebody dies of heart disease, “I won’t get heart disease I walked 2 miles today, and I don’t eat red meat.”
My husband died of a GBM, and the chance a 59 year old male getting a glioblastoma brain tumor is 0.000039%. I think its still harder to win the powerball. There’s an ad you’ll never see- your chance of getting a brain tumor is higher than winning the Powerball!
This is just how our society is.
Perfectly said. It's the just world fallacy on a world-wide scale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeko156
You won't. That is OP's point. People may see them as vermin, or a drain on society, but it is more socially acceptable to blame them than to say what they really feel.
"Let them die and decrease the surplus population." Dickens - A Christmas Carol
Dickens understood this almost 200 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer
They won't do that. Instead, they want to turn America into those other countries.
Pretty much, guilty as charged. There is no room on Earth for countries that are run as stupidly as the U.S.
Last edited by JobHunter2018; 09-08-2020 at 04:00 PM..
It's only getting worse because all income transfers widen the wealth gap as the poor will spend it ALL so money will flow directly to those who own economic assets, i.e. those who DON'T spend it!
Better get used to it OP.. we might as well spit in the ocean during a hurricane for all the difference such policies will make.
Oh so that's why Europe is outperforming us in every social indicator because of their superior welfare state.
This is why it's pointless to entertain your delusions. The best counter argument for you at this point is to outnumber you at the ballot box and destroy your entirely predatory way of life for the betterment of the many rather than the elite few.
The Circle Jerks had a great song that I can't link or write out the title to without being reprimanded.
But the lyrical phrasing, "Soup lines, free loaves of bread, five pound blocks of cheese....bags of groceries" is a big player.
Agree.... That song is even better!!.I'm surprised they let you write "Circle Jerks"!
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Solly says — Be nice!
