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....Which is why I've been ranting on CD for years about the absolute need to reduce single parenthood. We simply must find ways to reduce out of wedlock parenting and divorce. I get it. It's not THE ONLY solution. But it's a major part of the income/wealth gap. And it's the elephant in the room that we've been ignoring for a very long time.
Once again, even left leaning academic types admit this is a problem.
I think this problem is not solely about single parenthood. Poorer women seem to have children quite early, before they are fully adult. I am basing this on my observation. The fathers are absent, and even with aggressive state initiatives to force fathers to pay child support, some men manage not to pay.
Girls who are faced with bleak choices in their lives, might end up young mothers with poor prospects for betterment.
I’d like to have inexpensive birth control pills available off the shelf at every drugstore and department. BC pills have been used since the late 1960s and they have been proven safe for almost everyone. They should be as available as aspirin. There should be no age requirement to buy them. We could start there. Other strategies are better educational opportunities for poor young women, and higher minimum wages and required sick pay for all jobs.
I don’t know how you could legislate against being a single mother, frankly. As it is, society already pays for services to the poor. You should check into what schools routinely do for poor students, for instance.
I think this problem is not solely about single parenthood.
If you actually read my post, I said right there that it wasn't the ONLY issue. But it's a major one that's been ignored.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran
Poorer women seem to have children quite early, before they are fully adult. I am basing this on my observation. The fathers are absent, and even with aggressive state initiatives to force fathers to pay child support, some men manage not to pay.
Girls who are faced with bleak choices in their lives, might end up young mothers with poor prospects for betterment.
I’d like to have inexpensive birth control pills available off the shelf at every drugstore and department. BC pills have been used since the late 1960s and they have been proven safe for almost everyone. They should be as available as aspirin. There should be no age requirement to buy them. We could start there. Other strategies are better educational opportunities for poor young women, and higher minimum wages and required sick pay for all jobs.
I'm all for that. Personally, I think there are too many people (and not just on the right) who want a large underclass, and that's why this hasn't happened.
I would add that in the past, it was simply socially unacceptable, even among the poor, to have children outside marriage. As Isabell Sawhill said:
Unless the media, parents and other influential leaders celebrate marriage as the best environment for raising children, the new trend—bringing up baby alone—may be irreversible.
If you actually read my post, I said right there that it wasn't the ONLY issue. But it's a major one that's been ignored.
I'm all for that. Personally, I think there are too many people (and not just on the right) who want a large underclass, and that's why this hasn't happened.
I would add that in the past, it was simply socially unacceptable, even among the poor, to have children outside marriage. As Isabell Sawhill said:
Unless the media, parents and other influential leaders celebrate marriage as the best environment for raising children, the new trend—bringing up baby alone—may be irreversible.
I think entertainment and media reflect what is going on in society. And in years pAst, there were “unwed mothers.” Often young pregnant girls would be pressured to give their newborns up for adoption. There is much less of that now. But, there were single mothers giving birth in the past. If you were rich enough you could go for an extended trip, or use some other stratagem. If you were poor, you had fewer options. Plenty of women died or were seriously injured having illegal abortions.
I think our present oligarchy simply does not see the need to pay higher taxes, nor feel a duty to this society. Members of our elite classes routinely enter high status fields of study and employment, because their class has provided them with immense privilege. Many of these people view themselves as deserving somehow. We have a stratified society no, and its a shame.
I think entertainment and media reflect what is going on in society. And in years pAst, there were “unwed mothers.” Often young pregnant girls would be pressured to give their newborns up for adoption. There is much less of that now. But, there were single mothers giving birth in the past. If you were rich enough you could go for an extended trip, or use some other stratagem. If you were poor, you had fewer options. Plenty of women died or were seriously injured having illegal abortions.
I think our present oligarchy simply does not see the need to pay higher taxes, nor feel a duty to this society. Members of our elite classes routinely enter high status fields of study and employment, because their class has provided them with immense privilege. Many of these people view themselves as deserving somehow. We have a stratified society no, and its a shame.
The truth is that some people are poor because they don't just live beyond their means they squander money to the point they might as well be setting it on fire and subjecting others to it
Spoiler
then they complain they don't have money well gee I wonder why
Aside from that it depends on how you define poor, poor is a dis empowering word. It's a lot like loser in that sense though you'll find me more likely to use the word loser than poor because poor is like saying feel sorry for me. For discussion purposes though, we can forget that and define it in a basic sense. To me if we're going bare bones basic poor means that you're starving and you can't afford any home. Most people would define poor though by those who qualify for Section 8. I have Section 8 but I'm not broke. However I am financially challenged. If we were to include someone who is not broke but is financially challenged as "poor", some people really do go too far when they say don't live beyond your means. Living within your means to them means eating Ramen noodles or McDonalds everyday and living to work.
Nobody even seriously believes that whole nonsense about people "living beyond their means". It's just a cowardly way of saying "let nature weed out the poor" without actually having the adequate pair bolted on firmly enough to come out and say it. No one wants to come out and say "let the poor go homeless and starve so we can control the population" because that doesn't sell so well to the public the way that "you're poor because you did it all wrong" does. It's called economic eugenics and social cleansing and is rooted in social Darwinism. We've seen this mentality in Spain and all over Latin America and as far back as Rome and in religious ideologies like Calvinism and also well-known secular causes like population control.
Back in the day they used to just massacre peasants, herd Jewish, gay and Romani people into gas chambers, or massacre native Americans. Nowadays the eugenics crowds have a new tactic: they don't use guns or biological weapons or any direct means of mass murder. They much prefer the appearance of blamelessness. "I didn't shoot that homeless person, Tuburculosis killed them" or or "I didn't bomb that poor child, cancer killed them" or "I didn't gas that low wage Starbucks worker, Coronavirus killed them." Everyone knows that poor people stand a much higher risk of death. It's written right into Capitalism. It's why America has such a crappy lifespan compared to other countries that have things like socialized health care. When was the last time someone in Canada was denied a heart transplant because they couldn't afford it? The whole idea of our modern economic system is to engage in an intentional culture of negligence in hopes that a whole slew of issues aggravated by poverty will cut down on the population of poor people while leaving no one person at fault for their death. And when questions arise, the perfect response comes forth from those who secretly hold economic eugenics beliefs: "Well they lived beyond their means // they got a feminist dance studies major and had no skills // their tech job got outsourced overseas because they couldn't read and write at a college level // they bought too many Lattes." The dead giveaway here is that these people will never allow any scenario where poverty was caused by factors beyond the control of any given poor person. To these people even an orphaned kid on the street should have done better with his life because... <insert story of ten year old orphan millionaire here> and <I was a poor orphan kid on the mean streets of Urban Junkpileistan and look at me now with my yacht>. The other 7 kids out of 10 who either died or are still living in poverty were just pathetic losers.
My point here is when you read someone telling you that the reason someone is in economic dire straights is because they were living too high on the hog and not saving for a rainy day, and you are thinking of refuting their dishonest narrative - stop immediately. The narrative they're throwing at you is not what they are really arguing. They are wanting to tell you "...and I hope this poor fool dies because the poor are a drag on society" but they don't want to catch a forum ban, which if it isn't a guaranteed banning offense right now it certainly will become so once too many people start coming out openly with that line of thinking. They also subconsciously know that if more people start openly saying "poor people should just die" then it really will spark a social democratic revolution in this country, complete with a basic guaranteed income and a health care Public Option.
So please stop it. It's like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
This is one of the biggest piles of crap I have ever read. Sounds like you want to do away with personal responsibility. Guess what? People CAN live beyond their means and end up in dire straights because of it. Debt is a killer when times get tough. Doesn’t mean everyone wants them to die, just take responsibility for their actions.
I think entertainment and media reflect what is going on in society. And in years pAst, there were “unwed mothers.” Often young pregnant girls would be pressured to give their newborns up for adoption. There is much less of that now. But, there were single mothers giving birth in the past. If you were rich enough you could go for an extended trip, or use some other stratagem. If you were poor, you had fewer options. Plenty of women died or were seriously injured having illegal abortions.
I think our present oligarchy simply does not see the need to pay higher taxes, nor feel a duty to this society. Members of our elite classes routinely enter high status fields of study and employment, because their class has provided them with immense privilege. Many of these people view themselves as deserving somehow. We have a stratified society no, and its a shame.
What garbage. Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying, but America as a whole does not have stratified classes like say India with the caste system. Even the poorest of children in the US can work hard in school and become whatever they want to be, and no one will tell them they can’t, Because they don’t belong to a certain class. People born rich have certain advantages but many don’t take advantage of those. Within two generations of wealth, 90% have lost it. Generational wealth is a myth in large part.
Nobody even seriously believes that whole nonsense about people "living beyond their means"..
Wrong...I do!
I was always giving money to a friend who needed gas or food...until she came by sporting a brand new (and expensive) tattoo.
I know a huge lot of people who vacation every year, drive new cars they're making payments on, buy only new clothes, and new furniture for their rented places....and are deeply in debt.
Tell me that's not living beyond their means.
What garbage. Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying, but America as a whole does not have stratified classes like say India with the caste system. Even the poorest of children in the US can work hard in school and become whatever they want to be, and no one will tell them they can’t, Because they don’t belong to a certain class. People born rich have certain advantages but many don’t take advantage of those. Within two generations of wealth, 90% have lost it. Generational wealth is a myth in large part.
What America are YOU talking about? Surely it's not the United States of America. The wealthy use EVERY advantage they can to get over on society while looking down their snotty little disgusting noses on people who apply for welfare.
What about Corporate Welfare? What about the middle and working classes getting taxed to bail out the horrible decisions of Financial Institutions? FACT: The middle/working class bailed America out of the last recession, while the people you seem to love got a free ride (bailout).
I am a 66 year old Autistic woman, old by most peoples standards, but practically a relic for an Autistic person. You, see, us "high functioning" [and we hate that term] Autistics live on average well over 30 years less than "normal" people. I am not impoverished, but the vast majority of Autistic people are. And homelessness among the Autistic community? The National Coalition for the Homeless estimates that over 40% of the homeless are developmentally disabled.
As an Autistic and Disabilities activist, I see way too many of my friends die of "old age" in their thirties and forties. Some in their twenties.
I am the creator and coordinator of AutHaven, the only by/for Autistic retreat affordable for all attendees in the world. [ there are two others. One in the States and one in Great Britain, but not affordable to the truly poor, which most Autistics are. We do not publicize at all, but if interested you can read about it by googling Madison House AutHaven] Last week I was looking at memorabilia from past retreats, and as I looked over the past attendees it hit me that nearly 50% of them are dead. These were young people. These were poor people. These were people who were treated horribly. These were people who struggled with all their being to survive, but died, loathed by a society that considers them "less than." And yes, there was plenty of free old bread for them to eat, and maybe even get overfat and diabetes on, but not enough help of the type they needed to survive, let alone thrive.
There are so many specifics I could get into, and will if people ask questions, but I do get sick of hearing "Well, when I say I am tired of helping people who can't help themselves I am not referring to Autistic people with comorbidities that need help. It's okay to help them. I mean the others?"
The others? Do they mean the homeless woman I am friends with [not Autistic] who is constantly screaming in terror because she is seeing imaginary cats, just like the cats who would eat tuna packed in her private areas as as a child because her step-father would tie her spread-eagled and yeah, do that.
Or the vets with PTSD? How far are "Thank you for your service. You are the true heros" going to go when they are simultaneously living under a bridge in Denver and experiencing watching their best buddies being blown up in a needless war, experiencing this every day, over and over again.
How about those married women with a perfect husband and a perfect marriage, who find out they have breast cancer, and while they are getting treatment, their husband wipes out the bank account and leaves them for another woman. As a breast cancer survivor, attending support groups, I have no idea how many variations of this story I heard. This is common. I was very blessed that my husband didn't do this, and these women thought they were too, until it happened.
There are so many exceptions to the "It's there own fault" category, that that percentage of people who actually "deserve" to be placed there is tiny. TINY And, if they are not trying to kill us, why does the average person with a neurology similar to my own live less than 30 years as long as you judgemental "normal" people?
I apologize for all the grammatical mistakes, etc. As an Autistic woman, when I get emotional I "lose" my words and the best ways to use them.
Vicky3vicky: Your post (more importantly, your advocacy and work) is the perfect interruption of a lot of stuff I’ve read throughout this thread.
There are different (neuro/chemical/electrical/trauma-abuse induced/other - including substance/alcohol issues - defined as a disease) that people can have that are sometimes easily missed or compensated for (maybe). I’m less familiar with autism so I’m not claiming to make assumptions on that specifically.
I also tried to chop some of you’re comment off for space, but there is nothing I could find that was choppable.
Accidents, mild brain injury, MDD, organic disorders etc. and what I mentioned above - can, in many circumstances (as you know) hinder functioning in various ways. The worst of these seem to be (based on comments I’ve read) the inability to have meaningful work. I’ll take a leap and say that the most difficult aspect of “integrating” is the process of going from isolation, perhaps to work. The work part is generally easier than obtaining it - for anyone who has any societally designated imperfections.
Stigma is alive and well. Moral shaming equally so. At least from what I’ve read. Your post imbues a ton of truth. I wish people could understand that naively dismissing a fellow person’s horrible situation is part of the systemic thinking that just hurts people.
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then they complain they don't have money well gee I wonder why
