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Old 01-08-2021, 04:48 AM
 
50,339 posts, read 35,975,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyWest View Post
A mind is a terrible thing to waste https://animaljusticeacademy.com/?fb...Z4FI2gFHzyp1i4
I don't see a problem with people wanting to help work for more humane animal laws, etc. I think that's what makes the world better, people advocating for things that are important to them. I had a friend when I was a kid, who from the time she was in elementary school, was obsessed with animals. She had a horse she loved like it was human. She walked, talked and slept animals. Her lifelong dream was to become a vet. I could see her advocating for humane farming conditions or to end puppy mills. I don't think its a waste at all. Many laws have been changed on many fronts because people cared enough to devote large parts of their lives to making things better for something outside themselves.
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Old 01-08-2021, 07:36 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,916 posts, read 32,238,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I don't see a problem with people wanting to help work for more humane animal laws, etc. I think that's what makes the world better, people advocating for things that are important to them. I had a friend when I was a kid, who from the time she was in elementary school, was obsessed with animals. She had a horse she loved like it was human. She walked, talked, and slept animals. Her lifelong dream was to become a vet. I could see her advocating for humane farming conditions or to end puppy mills. I don't think its a waste at all. Many laws have been changed on many fronts because people cared enough to devote large parts of their lives to making things better for something outside themselves.
I don't see a problem either. The problem I see is in people who really do not care about the pain of animals. THAT is bizarre to me.
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Old 01-08-2021, 07:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I don't see a problem either. The problem I see is in people who really do not care about the pain of animals. THAT is bizarre to me.
Pain is a reality of life. When animals eat each other in their natural habitat, there is much pain. Yet, we can compassionately kill crop animals and eliminate as much pain as possible. And we should do that as long as it does not upend the economics. But pain will happen and we should not be using law to push the agenda of ethical vegans who have as a stated goal the compulsion of people to bend to their view of how to live. That will not be acceptable. Humans come before lesser animals. Anthropomorphizing the food chain is not useful.
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Old 01-08-2021, 08:02 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
Why would some of us enjoy the taste of meat from time to time? Because we evolved as omnivores, and we like it. The Beyond * products contain plant based materials only -- and I have a hard time seeing them in the same category as pink slime hot dogs based on their ingredients:

Ingredients in Beyond Burgers:

Water, Pea Protein, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, Rice Protein, Natural Flavors, Cocoa Butter, Mung Bean Protein, Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Apple Extract, Pomegranate Extract, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Vinegar, Lemon Juice Concentrate, Sunflower Lecithin, Beet Juice Extract (for color).

Ingredients in Beyond Sausage:

Water, Pea Protein, Refined Coconut Oil, Sunflower Oil, Natural Flavor, Contains 2% or less of: Rice Protein, Faba Bean Protein, Potato Starch, Salt, Fruit Juice (For Color), Vegetable Juice (For Color), Apple Fiber, Methylcellulose, Citrus Extract (To Protect Quality), Calcium Alginate Casing.

And for those who wish to point out they're processed, yes, I know. I don't care. They're healthful enough for me.
I agree.
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Old 01-08-2021, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,270 posts, read 14,502,944 times
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I mean the only way to really eliminate pain would be to eliminate every creature with a nervous system that is evolved enough to feel it in the first place. That does not sound like a good solution to me, so... Rather than that, I think in terms of "is this really necessary?" and return on investment/risk-reward kinds of thinking, like on the balance what are we accomplishing and it is worth the price to be paid or the risks taken?

And seriously if we have the ability to raise livestock so that they have mostly decent lives and painless deaths, but we don't choose that path, and instead we choose one that entails massive amounts of pain and suffering, and NOT ONLY THAT but harm to our environment, and major health risks to us... (I'm talking about nitrates and antibiotics and so on and so forth)...

I just really want humanity to bring its smartest strategies to bear in solving problems. I feel like we are capable of incredible things and it frustrates me when some folks bury their heads in the sand instead, or get mad and throw a fit about the very proposition that MAYYYbe, we aren't doing things the best way and should think about possible better ways. Like, aren't we smarter than that?

And I do think that there are other solutions besides "no one should eat meat or use any animal products at all." There are issues with agriculture that produces our vegetable products, too. But none of the issues on either side of it are unsolvable in my opinion. And really, like so many other issues, it's very much tied into economics and the questions around nationalism vs globalism. Sometimes, like the sci fi nerd that I am, I wonder if it's going to take serious danger from alien species from other planets, before humanity can think of itself as one race with shared problems needing shared solutions.
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Old 01-08-2021, 09:40 AM
 
2,106 posts, read 1,435,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Pain is a reality of life. When animals eat each other in their natural habitat, there is much pain. Yet, we can compassionately kill crop animals and eliminate as much pain as possible. And we should do that as long as it does not upend the economics. But pain will happen and we should not be using law to push the agenda of ethical vegans who have as a stated goal the compulsion of people to bend to their view of how to live. That will not be acceptable. Humans come before lesser animals. Anthropomorphizing the food chain is not useful.
That is an unarguable and correct statement. When viewing nature shows on the Smithsonian or any nature channel tracking the lives or migration of animals, you can see the fright of a small or weak animal as the herd runs from a lion or whatever is attacking, that animal gets singled out and then you see what occurs and that animal doing everything possible to struggle and escape (in futility). That always bothers me when I see this happening to a baby or disabled animal. Like I stated before, I have a soft spot for animals, but this is reality plain and simple.
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
6,219 posts, read 5,911,440 times
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When I buy fish, I try to stay lower in the food chain (mercury) and purchase sustainable species of fish:

https://oceana.org/living-blue/susta...-seafood-guide

Similarly, you can shop for meat that's been raised humanely with the welfare of the animals in mind:

https://thehappyfoodie.co.uk/article...y-ethical-meat
https://humaneitarian.org/
https://thegrownetwork.com/buy-cruelty-free-chicken/

Eating fowl and pork is lighter on resources than eating beef. Making these sort of choices will be more expensive -- but we as well as the animals would be better off if everyone saw meat as a couple of times a week thing rather than as a daily necessity.
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Old 01-08-2021, 11:29 AM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,993,307 times
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We do have the technology to grow crop animals without too much discomfort. We also have the technology to kill them compassionately with minimal pain and terror. We should do that, and I would pay somewhat more for products produced in that manner. But eating animal products is beneficial, correct, moral, and good. I won’t tolerate ethical vegans demands to stop using animal products. Or stop experimenting on animals to generate cures for human diseases. Animals should not be abused, but they should be used if it benefits us and we enjoy it.
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Old 01-08-2021, 11:58 AM
 
762 posts, read 447,454 times
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The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ― Martin Luther King Jr.
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Old 01-08-2021, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
13,652 posts, read 12,307,612 times
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As an avowed carnivore, I don't find them to be extreme on purpose. It's just that their restrictions can make it difficult and they seem insufferable.

Online they can be obnoxious, most of them are fine in person.

As to the ethics of eating meat or animal products, the debate to me is as silly as a debate between Atheism and a believer. It's pointless, no one is going to come away with their mind changed.
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