Are vegans fanatic and extreme? (problems, adult, animals, people)
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It was just a paradox for the sake of discussion, and to prove that your point about "freedom" without context is meaningless and even dangerous.
You didn't focus on the second part of the post, which I deem was more relevant.
And, as I said, I rarely eat meat (chicken once a month, beef once a year on average. And I'm the kind of person who eats what is on the plate if I'm invited for dinner at someone's place), but to this day it's become unnecessary violence, because there are alternatives. The habit lives on because of the billions of $ that flow around the industry, which is itself perhaps the real plague above all else. The rest is personal choice, but, once again, not all that we like to do is inherently ethical just because it's premitted by law and we get pleasure out of it ("Just because you feel good, it doesn't make you right", like the song says).
I don’t accept the loaded term “violence” to describe the orderly process of killing crop animals for human consumption. The fact that it is done on an industrial scale is irrelevant. It’s basically an extension of the basic act of life and living, hunting down your food and eating it. Just like primitive tribes did and do. Just like animals did and do. We simply have made it more efficient. I love the fact that there are industries devoted to keeping me well-fed with meats and vegetables and dairy and fish. I don’t accept the alternatives. So, as long as freedom is maintained, I am fine with vegans and carnists each doing their own thing and staying out of the dietary business of others.
That was always the case. Let’s go back to that and keep it that way. Everyone quietly and efficiently eating what they like, and not playing the phony virtue-signaling game.
I think vegans are often depicted as extreme because people hate to be reminded that someone can be better than them. The mere existence of vegans questions something that meat eaters like to do, and that bothers them. Period.
I think that even a fair discussion where a vegan calmly makes their point resounds powerfully in a carnivorous conscience (which is why the latter tend to exaggerate and even redicule the first: to exorcise the "monster" that spoils their pleasure by pointing out higher moral standards).
Eating meat isn't illegal. But being legal doesn't mean being just or ethical. Worse things weren't illegal in the past (I don't need to name examples here)... things that now humanity regrets and condemns. And I believe in the future we'll look back and see animal objectification as barbaric, just like we do with all the acts of "avoidable" violence and abuse on others.
The fact that we CAN do it, doesn't mean that we have to do it. The fact that we like it is of no justification either. Horrible things have been made by mankind just because some had the power to do those things to others who couldn't fight back or make their suffering be heard.
If you can, and you like it, you can do it, if it's legal. Yet I will always judge the level of humanity on the gauge of compassion as a first value.
Invoking "nature" too is rhetorical: just because other animals do it (when they don't have alternatives) doesn't mean anything: the she-mantis eats the male's head after mating, yet I wouldn't see that as appropriate IRL. It's called naturalistic fallacy, if I remember correctly.
I'm not vegan, but I try to eat as little meat as possible. I'm too weak and lazy basically, but I like the fact that I'm not proud of indulging and, if anything, I like it to be that way.
I get back to where I started. Nothing else to add, so I stop here or I run the risk to repeat myself getting stuck in infinite loops.
Whoever reads this thread will eventually have more elements to decide who's indeed "fanatic and extreme", and - who knows - might change their diet accordingly.
I get back to where I started. Nothing else to add, so I stop here or I run the risk to repeat myself getting stuck in infinite loops.
Whoever reads this thread will eventually have more elements to decide who's indeed "fanatic and extreme", and - who knows - might change their diet accordingly.
Over and out.
Or they’ll see that tyranny and irrationality go hand in hand and take many forms. Time will tell.
Of course you can. I've loved many animals, and I've eaten many other animals. And will continue doing both because animals are here for my pleasure, husbandry, and sustenance.
Some don't like the taste / texture of meat. Some don't like eating something of flesh and blood.
This is pure freedom of choice. No different that they enormous variety of taste preferences across the globe and over time. No need to morph it into a political or cultural statement.
Some don't like the taste / texture of meat. Some don't like eating something of flesh and blood.
This is pure freedom of choice. No different that they enormous variety of taste preferences across the globe and over time. No need to morph it into a political or cultural statement.
Celebrate freedom of choice; don't bash it.
Too late. It's already morphed into something else with extremists worldwide planning to use the state to end production of meat, or make it much more expensive through targeted over-regulation. Even utilizing violence by attacking fishing boats, butchers, and whaling ships.
We're well past freedom of choice. Militant vegans seek to shut down industrial animal farming entirely. They need to be opposed, and stopped. Now, before it's too late.
The main problem with veganism is that they've became radicalized by it. You can't dictate what food choices other people chooses, that's their choice. You can make a case about being ethical to how animals are raised and we need that. But not by taking choices away. The idea that some vegans think that an Impossible burger will get normal people to eat more veggies is just folly. Anybody that eat burgers regularly knows the Impossible burger is just a trendy eat because it doesn't taste as good as a real juicy meat burger. As for the environmental impact to animal farming vs plants. It's the same problem. We need to fix the environment and it doesn't matter if you're growing plants or raising cattle they all have environmental impacts.
Listen, vegans are fine. If it’s just a personal, and quiet, dietary choice. It is a bit of a religion though for a certain subsection of them though. Those are the ones that we have to shut down because their stated goal is to use the law to shut down the meat industry. I’m not tolerant of religious proselytizers. Or vegan proseletyzers either.
Eat what you want, just don’t export it. I enjoy the taste of beef, chicken, fish, and veal. I don’t apologize for it in any way. There is no moral issue involved. It is appropriate, moral, and correct to kill and eat animals for sustenance.
Let’s just have a world where dietary choice is not used as a virtue signaling progressive bludgeon to marginalize others with different views.
Meat is amazing and delicious. And so are vegetables and fruits. Let’s eat everything and shut up.
Pretty much this.
Find the right type of vegans. The ones who won't judge you for not going vegan, but will help you if you are interested.
Some of the vegan discussion groups on the internet have gotten hostile. People chime in, being new to those forums, saying they recently tried a vegan burrito, and it was delicious. Instead of praise and helping him go more and more towards a vegan lifestyle, he gets chastised that he's STILL eating meat.
I went to a vegan festival a few years back. I had no intention of going vegan, let alone vegetarian, but did want to take in the festivities, try out new foods, eat healthier, meet new folks. I'm pretty glad I did NOT tell anybody that I had no intention of going vegan/vegetarian, as I honestly didn't feel safe doing so.
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