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The answer from Dear Abby was this: "
DEAR CUT OFF: Tell your daughter that you are open to counseling, but only if it is joint counseling with her to figure out why there is such a disparity in your -- and her -- memories of her childhood. If you do, it may -- I can't guarantee -- resolve what's happening now."
I offered several times to take the eight-hour drive to where she lives so we could go to counseling together. That seemed to outrage her even more. Her sisters are becoming more upset over her public airing of grievances which are not even true. It may reach the point where I have to contact the lawyer we had when she took us to court (and lost) to remind her of what she signed about not doing that anymore.
If she told me she just doesn't like me, I'd have to accept it. But she has rejected her entire family and more than a few friends. She hasn't confronted the young man she accuses of the Ultimate Transgression short of murder. It's just us. Why?
I can think of two possible reasons:
1. It’s not true (or has been greatly exaggerated), which would put her in the position of confronting him with a false accusation.
2. It is true, but her own mother and sisters don’t believe her. It’s hard enough to come forward even when ones family does choose to believe them; imagine how much harder it is without the support of family.
Either reason could explain her behavior, but to be quite frankly... choosing not to believe her, has caused irreparable damage whether the sexual assault allegation is true or not. I’d like to think that it is preferable to be wrong for believing her lie than be wrong for not believing the truth, but either way, it’s very sad that you have been put in the position.
1. It’s not true (or has been greatly exaggerated), which would put her in the position of confronting him with a false accusation.
2. It is true, but her own mother and sisters don’t believe her. It’s hard enough to come forward even when ones family does choose to believe them; imagine how much harder it is without the support of family.
Either reason could explain her behavior, but to be quite frankly... choosing not to believe her, has caused irreparable damage whether the sexual assault allegation is true or not. I’d like to think that it is preferable to be wrong for believing her lie than be wrong for not believing the truth, but either way, it’s very sad that you have been put in the position.
The problem is that THIS issue is not the ONLY one - there are likely dozens of lies. Is it possible that believing this particular lie will end the problems? Or does "believing" one means believing all? And of course all the new ones to come in the future. Because this has been ongoing for some time. This situation cannot be boiled down to and characterized soley by the most dramatic issue the OP presented.
The problem is that THIS issue is not the ONLY one - there are likely dozens of lies. Is it possible that believing this particular lie will end the problems? Or does "believing" one means believing all? And of course all the new ones to come in the future. Because this has been ongoing for some time. This situation cannot be boiled down to and characterized soley by the most dramatic issue the OP presented.
You have only one side of the story. You do not know if the daughter is lying.
If Mom and Sissies are so upset with the social media put out by the daughter they should do as the judge mandated. Do not contact the daughter. I think at this point Mom and Sissies are somewhat addicted to reading up on the daughter's posting. Maybe they get an adrenaline rush by reading them (or now having the friends read them to them. Creepy at best) as they gasp and react. For their own mental health, stop having friends read up on the daughter's posting, follow the judge's advice etc etc. Respect the daughter's wishes. Respect her as a person. Frankly the behavior of Mom and Sissies is not a good look at this point.
Cease all contact as the daughter has requested. Whether you or agree with it or not.
Certainly some extreme cases call for cutting parents out of one’s life, even if doing so comes at a psychological cost. Far more often, what I see in my practice are cases of family conflict mismanaged, power dynamics inverted rather than negotiated. I see the shattering effect of that trend: scenarios with no winners, only isolated humans who long to be known and feel safe in the presence of the other.
Some of my patients are young adults who decided to end, or are considering ending, their relationships with their parents. They try to process their parents’ harmful actions in their childhood, their lack of boundaries, and their narcissistic or intrusive behaviors. Those children struggle with anger, pain and guilt and are often feeling confused and lonely.
Other patients are parents on the other side of that dynamic, who feel betrayed and heartbroken. It’s hard for them to acknowledge or even recognize their aggression. In my experience, baby boomer parents are especially troubled. They perceive themselves as products of the 1960s social revolution; many of them rejected their own parents’ authoritarian style and followed a parenting approach that at least appeared to prioritize the children’s needs. Those patients feel trapped in generational limbo, neglected by their own parents who didn’t fully know them and abandoned by their children who don’t want to know them.
Certainly some extreme cases call for cutting parents out of one’s life, even if doing so comes at a psychological cost. Far more often, what I see in my practice are cases of family conflict mismanaged, power dynamics inverted rather than negotiated. I see the shattering effect of that trend: scenarios with no winners, only isolated humans who long to be known and feel safe in the presence of the other.
Some of my patients are young adults who decided to end, or are considering ending, their relationships with their parents. They try to process their parents’ harmful actions in their childhood, their lack of boundaries, and their narcissistic or intrusive behaviors. Those children struggle with anger, pain and guilt and are often feeling confused and lonely.
Other patients are parents on the other side of that dynamic, who feel betrayed and heartbroken. It’s hard for them to acknowledge or even recognize their aggression. In my experience, baby boomer parents are especially troubled. They perceive themselves as products of the 1960s social revolution; many of them rejected their own parents’ authoritarian style and followed a parenting approach that at least appeared to prioritize the children’s needs. Those patients feel trapped in generational limbo, neglected by their own parents who didn’t fully know them and abandoned by their children who don’t want to know them.
I never thought to be in this position in my life but one of my three daughters, the middle child, has become alienated from me and the rest of our family.
There was an online support group that looked interesting so I joined and read stories of other parents' experiences in this area. What struck me was the angst on the part of both parent and "child"; slights, abuses, hurtful actions, both real and perceived, on both sides. Most of the estrangement occurs when the "child" decides to remove himself or herself from the parent's orbit. The reasons aren't always clear but they are real to the child. There are various suggestions about how best to deal with this.
My problem is unique (as are they all) because my daughter and her sisters did not grow up in anything like the home she describes online via Twitter, FB, and other social media. When she posts of the egregious treatment she received during her life with us, we gape at each other in disbelief and wonder why anyone would want to project themselves to be such a tragic victim.
According to her, whom I still love very much and would forgive in a heartbeat, she was very badly treated and told by me that she should have been aborted. Omg. Nothing could be further from the truth. She was a beloved, much-wanted child. Much of what she says about her upbringing is a fabrication. No one in our extended family wants anything to do with her because she said a lot of things publicly which weren't true and hurt lots of feelings.
She also claimed to be a rape victim. Not true. If there is a disaster somewhere (9/11, the Newtown school shooting, etc.), she links herself to them by knowing someone or encountering someone or had direct experience with someone who was involved. "People I love have died of COVID19" is a common refrain on her social media which a friend has access to.
She has many diseases, surgeries, and other problems which are leading her to death's door, according to her.
She has cut all of us off (we see her messages from a friend on social media). She is getting divorced for a second time. She appears to have a decent job and has held it for about two years. She is involved in local politics. She is a college graduate and bright. She always had friends.
I'm not angry with her. I am worried and concerned. What has happened to my sweet little girl?
Unfortunately, there seems to be an epidemic of this. My husband's so is this way. He calls rarely. We tried to call him on Thanksgiving. And oddly it is coupled with many complaints of rare and exotic diseases, and complaints of neglect on the part of my husband.
There was no neglect. He wanted to be the center of all attention, with the exclusion of the other children. He also wanted to go to hardcore clubs ( a type of very violent Punk rock) at 13 and 14 in the middle of the week. At these clubs, he would get into mosh pits and often dive off stages. Most of the "kids" at these all-ages shows were 18 or better.
I thought the whole thing was dangerous and outrageous. I also thought letting him go to these places was insane. My husband felt sorry for him because he was always sad looking, and crying. I have no issue with boys expressing emotions, I am not like that. However, this was self-serving, fake, and manipulative.
The school called me to say he was falling asleep in class. I explained what was going on He had a strange affect and I thought he should be evaluated. At the time my husband was against it. The school demanded that he see the school social worker. She thought he needed psychiatric care.
My stepson asked if he could spend a weekend at his maternal uncle's house, He had been talking to him on the phone, I thought something was up and pleaded with him not to let him go. I knew it was a setup. The uncle never had any children of his own, and he suffered from mild CP. He was very unaware of what normal - or abnormal teenagers do, as was his wife, a mail-order bride from the Philipines.
On Monday he didn't want to come home. By then he was 16 and in NYS a kid can live where ever they want at 16 as long as they attend school. regularly. The uncle wanted him to live with him. What he wanted was his late sister's SS check that he would get until he was 18.
A week later he sued my husband for child support stating that the boy had a bruise on his face. My husband NEVER touched him. He does not believe in it. The bruise was sustained at a hardcore show. He liked being roughed up at these violent shows, something I cannot understand. They opened and quickly closed a CPS case against my husband.
YET the uncle wanted child support. He said I'll support him in his OWN HOME. I had been suggesting a therapeutic boarding school for a long time. He was opening up to that. However, it was too late, The boy was living with his avaricious uncle who would not stop until he got blood in the form of money. The almost $2000 a month SS death benefit was not enough. He wanted child support. The judge granted it, I don't understand why. They also sued my husband for a new kitchen, which made the judge laugh. The 16-year-old was notoriously messy when making food late at night. I had cleaned up many a mess. Apparently, the uncle's wife was getting tired of it and she wanted him to have his own kitchen on his own level of the house. It was a bi9level and he lived downstairs.
Anyway, after he went away to college he dropped out or flunked out. He got his trust fund from his mother's family and went out to the west coast - Seattle.
We haven't seen him in 15 years. He got a girl pregnant and wanted to visit my husband (not me) with the boy. After all, we have been thru, even my husband has little interest. He even named the baby after the stinking greedy uncle who kicked him out. Frankly, I am afraid of this man. Schizophrenia runs in his mother's family and as I thought, he was diagnosed with it several years ago. He's on disability now and in his early 30s. I don't want him in my home, because he admits to "still hating her: and he had "warned my husband not to get married before he graduated high school or he would bash his head in with a baseball bat", Nice.
So my husband is estranged from him. To his credit, he will not visit him without me. The man doesn't want me to come - only his "real grandmother" who is dead. He is childlike and fanciful.
I do not rule out danger. I think he is capable of violence.
I never thought to be in this position in my life but one of my three daughters, the middle child, has become alienated from me and the rest of our family.
There was an online support group which looked interesting so I joined and read stories of other parents' experience in this area. What struck me was the angst on the part of both parent and "child"; slights, abuses, hurtful actions, both real and perceived, on both sides. Most of the estrangement occurs when the "child" decides to remove him or her self from the parent's orbit. The reasons aren't always clear but they are real to the child. There are various suggestions about how best to deal with this.
My problem is unique (as are they all) because my daughter and her sisters did not grow up in anything like the home she describes online via Twitter, FB and other social media. When she posts of the egregious treatment she received during her life with us, we gape at each other in disbelief and wonder why anyone would want to project themselves to be such a tragic victim.
According to her, whom I still love very much and would forgive in a heartbeat, she was very badly treated and told by me that she should have been aborted. Omg. Nothing could be further from the truth. She was a beloved, much-wanted child. Much of what she says about her upbringing is fabrication. No one in our extended family wants anything to do with her because she said a lot of things publicly which weren't true and hurt lots of feelings.
She also claimed to be a rape victim. Not true. If there is a disaster somewhere (9/11, the Newtown school shooting, etc.), she links herself to them by knowing someone or encountered someone or had direct experience with someone who was involved. "People I love have died of COVID19" is a common refrain on her social media which a friend has access to.
She has many diseases, surgeries and other problems which are leading her to death's door, according to her.
She has cut all of us off (we see her messages from a friend on social media). She is getting divorced for a second time. She appears to have a decent job and has held it for about two years. She is involved in local politics. She is a college graduate and bright. She always had friends.
I'm not angry with her. I am worried and concerned. What has happened to my sweet little girl?
I can only guess. But I knew someone, who at times would be similarly full of grief, claiming as an adult, that many of his classmates from school had been murdered by a serial killer who had been in the news. This person was later diagnosed with depression, and put on meds. Perhaps your daughter has clinical depression.
About the claims to many illnesses, this sounds like something approaching Munchausen's syndrome, where people fake illnesses to get attention and sympathy. But your daughter isn't faking symptoms, even harming herself to convince doctors she has this or that disease. Still, this seems like a clear attempt to gain sympathy.
Can you think of any kind of trauma she may have suffered as a child? it could have been anything, from some kind of medical trauma to bullying at school that you may not have realized was serious (if she mentioned anything at all), to a temporary family crisis, or a relocation that resulted in loss of friends. Anything.
How long has it been since you've seen her in person or talked with her on the phone, and how did she behave with you the last couple of times that happened?
This has probably been posted earlier in the thread, but there seems to be some mental illness at play.
As to the rape charge/s, you never know. That would certainly qualify as trauma, and to not be believed would make it worse. It would explain her need for sympathy, even to the point of making up accusations. But you said earlier, she has always lied? Even before the rape charges? Even before her teens? If that's true, I would speculate, that the lying itself was a symptom of an earlier trauma.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 11-30-2021 at 11:20 AM..
Not only mental illness but there are times when an adult child uses a similar method to hide alcohol or chemical abuse. Or perhaps an eating disorder. Some secret.
Conveniently, dwelling on a victim role also gives them a good "reason" to continue dysfunctional behavior. Even genuine victims need to work toward stepping out of the victim role for a return to health as rapidly as is possible for them.
This kind of physical and psychological separation from parents has become so common today that I'm tempted to think that some young people do it just to be part of a group they identify with. There are some rewards for being a brave survivor of abuse that may appeal to people who don't feel they are getting enough recognition.
It obviously means something is wrong. It's possible that she has been abused and is protecting the abuser and projecting the blame elsewhere. Without more information than you have it is nearly impossible to guess what has gone awry in her life.
It must be hard not to wonder if you have been guilty of damaging mistakes. I hope after some honest soul-searching of your part in things you'll resist self-blame. If you know of things you've done that were mistakes you can be open to discussing them. But sitting and beating yourself up over them is only self-defeating.
Kids don't come with user manuals and we all make mistakes raising them. At some point how they react to that is their responsibility. There might be some hurt feelings. You can't have close relationships without them. But no one has to be scarred by hurt feelings. They go with the territory .
I'm so sorry you are having to experience this painful situation.
I think you are right. They see being an abuse survivor as a form of achievement. As for substance abuse, that is almost always a component of these estrangements.
I never thought to be in this position in my life but one of my three daughters, the middle child, has become alienated from me and the rest of our family.
There was an online support group which looked interesting so I joined and read stories of other parents' experience in this area. What struck me was the angst on the part of both parent and "child"; slights, abuses, hurtful actions, both real and perceived, on both sides. Most of the estrangement occurs when the "child" decides to remove him or her self from the parent's orbit. The reasons aren't always clear but they are real to the child. There are various suggestions about how best to deal with this.
My problem is unique (as are they all) because my daughter and her sisters did not grow up in anything like the home she describes online via Twitter, FB and other social media. When she posts of the egregious treatment she received during her life with us, we gape at each other in disbelief and wonder why anyone would want to project themselves to be such a tragic victim.
According to her, whom I still love very much and would forgive in a heartbeat, she was very badly treated and told by me that she should have been aborted. Omg. Nothing could be further from the truth. She was a beloved, much-wanted child. Much of what she says about her upbringing is fabrication. No one in our extended family wants anything to do with her because she said a lot of things publicly which weren't true and hurt lots of feelings.
She also claimed to be a rape victim. Not true. If there is a disaster somewhere (9/11, the Newtown school shooting, etc.), she links herself to them by knowing someone or encountered someone or had direct experience with someone who was involved. "People I love have died of COVID19" is a common refrain on her social media which a friend has access to.
She has many diseases, surgeries and other problems which are leading her to death's door, according to her.
She has cut all of us off (we see her messages from a friend on social media). She is getting divorced for a second time. She appears to have a decent job and has held it for about two years. She is involved in local politics. She is a college graduate and bright. She always had friends.
I'm not angry with her. I am worried and concerned. What has happened to my sweet little girl?
It sounds like she's delusional. She believes these things to be true and is sabotaging her own happiness in the process. She needs psycho-therapy in a bad way.
All you can do is first try to contact her outside of social media of course. Ask her if you can get together and discuss some of the issues that appear to be bothering her and offer maybe a talk over lunch or dinner? If she absolutely will not have anything to do with you, maybe something happened that you don't remember?
Hey, OP, did you see today’s Dear Abby letter? 25 year old daughter stopped speaking to her parents, alleges abuse, but won’t explain. All the mom can think of is that they had some arguments...said the daughter wasn’t even spanked!
This may be or will get to be a thing with young people who are upset with something or everything in their lives. Rather than look within, much easier and more satisfying to blame parents. And just noting that a couple instances where parenting skills were less than stellar doesn’t give them the justification or elicit the sympathy than the ultimate trump card: “abuse.”
My generation didn’t always love how they were parented. Thus some therapies were invented, like primal therapy a la John Lennon screaming and pretending to experience being born. But usually it was about parents who neglected or criticized. I can’t think of anyone who accused their parents of abuse! I do realize that things were kept more hush hush, but could there really be such a surge of parental abuse these days? And my generation was willing to spend the time and money on psychiatrists couches. Today’s young people forgo that and just explain all their challenges and troubles in the neat tidy package of “abuse.”
While I don’t believe the Dear Abby mom or OP abused their kids, I do think what so many of today’s parents of young people are guilty of is not promoting and allowing to develop resiliency and other healthy mental abilities that got previous generations through the trials of life. The Dear Abby mom notes that her daughter was allowed to do what she wanted and given anything she ever wanted. This is good parenting? Mom and dad are supposed to be parents, not Santa Claus! Eventually the day comes when that child can’t get everything they want because the parents can’t make it happen, whether it’s the college or job of their choice, the most desirable girlfriend or boyfriend, etc. And that’s where the unhappiness begins....
Here’s the article. Hope it helps some of you see that it’s not just you and your kids.
I agree that for some reason, and I am not sure why today's children are less resilient. I also think that there is a culture of thinking that every mistake or shortcoming - real or perceived, on the part of a parent is "abuse"
Please do not misunderstand, I am aware and opposed to all forms of child abuse, including psychological and verbal abuse, which usually gets less attention and is sometimes difficult to define. However, every child who was ever said "NO" to, or not given constant attention, or given constant undivided attention - was not "abused". They were just subjected to real-life minor disappointment and minor slights.
Raising children who can "self soothe" when needed, is a very important life skill. Mom and dad are not omnipresent or omniscient. We are not "mind readers". We try to get it right, but there are times when we do not know that something is wrong.
Children need to know that parents are not Santa Clause, as you have said, and every day is not a day at Disney World. The default answer to most questions about the purchase of candy and toys or the need for money without earning it - should be NO.
No child needs candy and toys every time you are shopping in a store that sells those items. No teenager needs $40 bucks every time they ask.
I babysat in HS. I have a daughter who thought that was beneath her, so tough luck, My parents were wealthy, but they did not function as human ATMs. If I wanted money from one of them to buy concert tickets or records, I'd ask them if there was something I could do. Wash the car, clean out the pool, vacuum, and dust the living room. They always had something we could do.
Children are entitled to love, adequate clothes, age-appropriate games and toys a nice bedroom, bicycles, etc. Most middle-class parents can and should supply these things, Candy is not a good habit. We baked on holidays, and they got candy then. My son had no problem with that. In the winter when he wanted money to go to a show, buy music, or a game, he did chores. In the winter when it snowed at age nine, he got out the snow shovel and went door to door. My daughter didn't want to do that. Unfortunately, having many friends whose parents acted as though they were gift-giving genies, makes likes life very hard for the rest of us. Putting a $300 cap on prom dresses is not "child abuse".You want something more expensive? Earn it.
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