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I think you proved my point not yours. Are you a smoker or did you choose not to smoke? I don't think alcoholism is an all or nothing addiction but more of a scale where for one person a drink has to lead to many and others whose one drink needs to be monitored. I know people that set rules for drinking. Not on a work day or never before 5pm, etc. Now we could argue if they are alcoholics but I think the important part is that these people see that alcohol could be a problem and have set up obstacles for them to get there.
There are plenty of functional alcoholics.
I think true alcoholics can’t just choose to drink on weekends only. Again just as I couldn’t choose to smoke on weekends only.
I am a fairly heavy drinker (beer 95% of the time, a bit of wine here and there). I don’t consider myself an alcoholic, but some might.
There are lots of alcoholics throughout my grandparents and on back. Paternal grandfather had over a dozen DUIs and numerous felonies. He sobered up at 75 back in 2010 after a heart attack. He’s 85 now and hasn’t had a drink since.
Both grandmothers had several alcoholic brothers. I wasn’t close to those great uncles growing up, but it was obviously there.
It skipped my parents’ generation. I don’t think any of my cousins are heavy drinkers.
I got into drinking as craft beer became widely available. I’ve reviewed hundreds of beers, and probably been to hundreds of breweries all over the country over the years. Sure, I overdo sometimes, but I’ve met tons of cool people and done tons of cool things because of the craft beer scene.
It's interesting that you make very specific mention of beer. Beer is no different than wine or "hard liquor" - you can become an alcoholic drinking any kind of alcohol though many seem to think of beer as being innocuous or "not so bad".
I knew an alcoholic who said they couldn't be one since they only drank Absolut vodka. They figured you couldn't be an alcoholic unless you were willing to drink "anything"
Both are justifications - only beer and only the good stuff (craft beer). I'm not saying you ARE an alcoholic because you don't really mention volumes. But, don't make excuses if you think you might be.
Interestingly, neither of my parents were alcoholics, and neither were any of my grandparents. However, my mother was raised to be a caretaker. She had to put her own feelings, and even her own possessions, aside for her sister, who was mentally retarded and crippled with cerebral palsy. She then married my Dad, a very gentle, kind man but who had lost his legs in the war and lived with PTSD. I learned without being explicitly told that I am supposed to put my own needs aside and take care of someone else. That's what I knew, and an alcoholic fit into that perfectly for me. As the saying goes, the rocks in his head matched the holes in mine.
I like the way you worded that. I wish I had used the word "roles" rather than "principles." I think those roles overlap in all kinds of dysfunctional families. And, yeah, it doesn't mean that there are bad or uncaring people playing those roles at all. They are all chosen for the way they help the person adapt to the dysfunction the best they know how.
There's always one hero child, it seems. It's sad isn't it?
I think true alcoholics can’t just choose to drink on weekends only. Again just as I couldn’t choose to smoke on weekends only.
I can agree with that. My thought though is that like most anything there is a scale. There are weekend warriors that exhibit all the behavior of an alcoholic but can shut it down through the week. I would say they were alcoholics but up further on the scale.
I think you proved my point not yours. Are you a smoker or did you choose not to smoke? I don't think alcoholism is an all or nothing addiction but more of a scale where for one person a drink has to lead to many and others whose one drink needs to be monitored. I know people that set rules for drinking. Not on a work day or never before 5pm, etc. Now we could argue if they are alcoholics but I think the important part is that these people see that alcohol could be a problem and have set up obstacles for them to get there.
There are plenty of functional alcoholics.
There are functional alcoholics and most alcoholics were functional at one time until they were no longer able to stick to their own rules. The only way that can accidently happen to them is if they keep drinking.
Don't forget that alcoholism isn't a static condition. It's a progressive one. In early alcoholism you can't even see the problem. In late stage alcoholism you can't hide it.
So many in our culture believe that people in which you can't see the problem aren't true alcoholics. Or people who hold down a job can't be alcoholic. But those are myths.
For most people, if they are alcoholic and continue to drink, their alcoholism will lead to mental illness, physical disease and death eventually.
And, yes, Christi is bright and does good research. Maybe you should figure out a way to go back to school?
I don't think it matters whether it's genetic or not. You are stuck with what you are. I think there are many people who use alcohol and drugs because they enjoy them, but they are not addicted in a clinical sense. To be addicted you would probably need to experience physical withdrawal symptoms, not just psychological longing, when you stop.
I was a heavy drinker (probably got drunk at night 25 days a month) for 25 years from the time I was in college until my mid 40's. But I never missed a day of school or work. I graduated, had a bachelors and masters degree, I held good jobs, bought a home, raised a family. Never got a traffic citation or was in an accident even though I often drove under the influence, I was a very good drunk driver. Back in the "Madmen" days in 1970's NYC you had to be able to hold your liquor to get along in business. A lot of trust was built on a barstool with co workers, bosses, etc. Winston Churchill won WWII drinking a quart of gin a day. Harry Truman played cards and drank whiskey with his friends at night after work in the White House. As long as a man fulfilled his responsibilities it was up to him how much he drank.
In my mid 40's I quit drinking cold turkey for 5 years in solidarity with a close relative who wanted to get sober. I wanted to set an example, show if I could do it, they could too, and it worked. After 5 years, the relative was on their own, and I started drinking again. However I cut my volume in half and drank nightly to get relaxed rather than drunk. I did that for another 20 years, then ran into some health problems that made me quit drinking alcohol and caffeine (both of which I really enjoyed), for the last 5 years. I never had any withdrawal symptoms. I sometimes feel like a drink but tell myself I can't do that and forget about it. I probably have had 4 or 5 drinks a year since then.
I think the thing that defines an addict is that they can't stop, whether it's alcohol, opiates, gambling, etc. Throughout my life I've always known when to taper off, when to stop, when to go. That's applied to alcohol, drugs, gambling, taking risks. I'd like to think I used them to my advantage. Like most people, I did the best I could. I don't think labels matter, or whether you drink or not, take drugs or not. What counts is how you live your life.
I think there is a genetic component to it, but I think a lot of it is a learned behavior. If you grew up in a family where alcohol use and abuse was normal, then you are more likely to use and abuse it yourself because, from your experience, that's just what people do.
I am a recovering alcoholic. I have been drinking for almost 50 years. I guess I would call myself a high bottom alcoholic. I never went to work drunk, never drank on the job, never got a DUI, rarely got blotto drunk, but I drank every day after work. I would get a glass of wine or a cheap beer, later on a Mikes Hard Lemonade at 4:30 or so, watch the news, putter around the house, have several more drinks and be pleasantly buzzed by 9:30 or so. and head off to bed. I did this all during my work career, even had a CDL, drove a 10 speed truck and was a responsible employee.
I retired in 2011 and my drinking gradually escalated: 4:30 pm became 3:30, became 2:30, then noon. I was still pretty high functioning, but my Hr was 95 to 100, my blood pressure was 150/90, and I felt like **** most of the time. In early 2018 I went to treatment for 30 days. That lasted for almost a year, but I gradually started drinking again. In late summer 2020, I was dehydrated to the point of taking an ambulance into town. Soon after, I had the experience of drinking, puking, drinking, puking, for most of one night. I joined Alcoholics Anonymous soon after. I go to zoom meetings every day and talk with people who share much the same experience. I belong to a group called "Cleveland Westside Agnostics". I love this group and credit them for helping me stay sober for the last six months.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Is it genetic? Don't know, but my sister is also a recovering alcoholic, so it's possible.
It's interesting that you make very specific mention of beer. Beer is no different than wine or "hard liquor" - you can become an alcoholic drinking any kind of alcohol though many seem to think of beer as being innocuous or "not so bad".
I knew an alcoholic who said they couldn't be one since they only drank Absolut vodka. They figured you couldn't be an alcoholic unless you were willing to drink "anything"
Both are justifications - only beer and only the good stuff (craft beer). I'm not saying you ARE an alcoholic because you don't really mention volumes. But, don't make excuses if you think you might be.
A lot of the alcoholism "diagnosis" depends on perspective.
My mom is a teetotaler. Dad might drink a 12 pack of Michelob Ultra a month with friends or after working in the yard or something. That's too much for her.
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