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If a woman feeling comfortable in her own skin is being feminine what do looks have to do with it?
If she is comfortable in her own skin (and enjoys/embraces being a woman), it is likely to be reflected in her appearance in the same way overall happiness and confidence would be. Conversely, one who is apathetic about their gender and/or expresses anger or concern as to what someone else finds attractive (or not), particularly if they are demanding justification, is likely to reflect in their appearance/personality as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT
If I'm a woman who enjoys wearing wifebeaters, splitting firewood, and smoking cigars does that make me someone trying to be a man?
I'm masculine, and I don't smoke cigars or wear wifebeaters (lol); that said, your benchmark relative to what I personally wouldn't find attractive/feminine in a woman is spot-on. :-)
Unfortunately, many folks conflate femininity and masculinity with "looking the part" at the most basic level. If you don't look like a girlie-girl or at least a girl, then how can you possibly be feminine? And if you "embrace" being feminine then why in the heck don't you do that girlie-girl stuff and try to look as much like a girl as possible? After that, any other girlie-girl actions sure help and hopefully you don't do anything a guy would do!
Same with guys...ya gotta look like a guy, first and foremost...and then, it's best to to act like a guy. And of course, if you're happy with being a guy then you'll just naturally do ALL the typical guy stuff, otherwise you're a bit suspect (but not only with respect to gender - your whole sexual orientation with be in doubt, unfortunately!
It ends up being pretty circular. In reality, there's not a whole lot about life that relies on someone's feminine and masculine traits - sure, reproductive stuff. But appearance, interests, activities, job - eh, not so much. For some people, masculinity and femininity aren't very central to their lives so "embracing" it is like - why? It is what it is.
Unfortunately, many folks conflate femininity and masculinity with "looking the part" at the most basic level..
Absolutely, because men are biologically different in appearance than women; and (straight) men/women are attracted to each other based in re: these physical differences at the most basic level. It's not rocket science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
Same with guys...ya gotta look like a guy, first and foremost...and then, it's best to to act like a guy. And of course, if you're happy with being a guy then you'll just naturally do ALL the typical guy stuff, otherwise you're a bit suspect (but not only with respect to gender - your whole sexual orientation with be in doubt, unfortunately!
There's a distinction between psychologically identifying with being a man/feeling (or presenting as) masculine (particularly considering this is a Psychology Forum) vs. allowing someone else, or antiquated stereotypes, to define who we are.
Last edited by CorporateCowboy; 04-17-2021 at 11:31 AM..
Reason: typo
I think the whole thing is silly. Most people I know are a mix. I have friends who can sew a great halloween costume and then they restore a truck.
The sexiest male to me? One who doesn't take his masculinity too seriously. Being comfortable in who you are is sexy.
You can't tell me most guys wouldn't find a pretty girl hot in a wife beater, daisy dukes, and swinging an ax chopping wood. The person is the issue, not the "trappings" or the activity.
I LIKE that men don't have to follow a stereotype, I LIKE that I don't have to follow a stereotype. Gender norms change over the decades, there is no "right" or "wrong" way to be you.
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Absolutely, because men are biologically different in appearance than women; and (straight) men/women are attracted to each other based in re: these physical differences at the most basic level. It's not rocket science.
There's a distinction between psychologically identifying with being a man/feeling (or presenting as) masculine (particularly considering this is a Psychology Forum) vs. allowing someone else, or antiquated stereotypes, to define who we are.
Haha - no shnt! I forgot where I was for a moment!
I'm so glad that the human race is slowly evolving and that it's not JUST the manliest of men and the girliest of girls that get to reproduce! And that some folks aren't necessarily attracted to just those who most "look the part" and "act the part". Otherwise 75% of us in the middle of the spectrum (actually Bem's theory is that there are separate spectrums for both feminine and masculine so people can potentially be high or low on both at the same time - mind boggling but as a connoisseur of psychology I'm sure you know all 'bout that). And when you say "most basic level" you should mean primary sexual characteristics, not secondary sexual characteristics and even behaviors relating to their interests, right?
But there's the rub...everything is smooth as silk if you define yourself as you "should" and behave as you should. People give lip service to those antiquated stereotypes and say that THEY are oh so modern...yet many of those same people don't allow themselves or others to be anything other than that stereotype. Or are quick to point out that 'you can't help what you're attracted to'. Fine...just know what you are.
You can't tell me most guys wouldn't find a pretty girl hot in a wife beater, daisy dukes, and swinging an ax chopping wood.
Exactly, and in order to find a 'pretty girl' hot in any revealing clothing, it's based in re: her 'feminine look' i.e. her (physically different) body. Else, we (straight men) wouldn't bother looking. :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
But there's the rub...everything is smooth as silk if you define yourself as you "should" and behave as you should. People give lip service to those antiquated stereotypes and say that THEY are oh so modern...yet many of those same people don't allow themselves or others to be anything other than that stereotype. Or are quick to point out that 'you can't help what you're attracted to'. Fine...just know what you are.
At the end of the day, it's about psychological health (and being comfortable/liking who you are whether you're feminine or masculine); it's not about appeasing (or judging) anyone else.
Btw, I may be a connoisseur of scotch, lol; but I'm not, nor have I heard the term relative to, a 'connoisseur of psychology', per your previous post. I'm certainly no expert in psychology (and never claimed to be), but one need not be to have an elementary understanding (or have one's life together), particularly relative to (personal) opinion.
Last edited by CorporateCowboy; 04-17-2021 at 02:01 PM..
The thread ended up getting off track - rather than commenting on their own femininity or masculinity - instead talking about what they preferred in those terms. That's a quick way to set people on edge...and interesting the degree to which some talked more about physical appearance rather than skills, interests, personality.
Oh - CC - maybe instead of connoisseur I should have said dilettante.
The thread ended up getting off track - rather than commenting on their own femininity or masculinity - instead talking about what they preferred in those terms. That's a quick way to set people on edge...and interesting the degree to which some talked more about physical appearance rather than skills, interests, personality.
It's not 'off-track' as many don't believe antiquated notions of specific skills or interests as being directly correlated to masculinity or femininity i.e. 'cooking', 'smoking cigars', or wearing a 'wife beater shirt' (lol). That said, it's indisputable a 'masculine' or 'feminine' difference (in appearance) exists relative to being biologically male or female - no matter how one may individually define masculinity/femininity on a personal level. 'Dressing the part', so to speak, is often the first (and most obvious way) we present our identity/masculinity/femininity to others. I'm masculine, and I wear men's clothes, shoes, and so on i.e. my physical presence is 'masculine' (the male sex/gender per Oxford).
That said, how does it 'set people on edge' (in a Psychology Forum, no less) if adults comment re: their own masculinity/femininity (or their deduction in so doing)? Have you stated where you would place yourself relative to the OP's question, or are you simply refereeing others' responses i.e. what we should say, so as not to 'set you on edge'? Keep in mind the point is psychological health, part of which is accepting other people's opinion, particularly relative to their own masculinity/femininity and how it relates to appearance/is perceived.
Last edited by CorporateCowboy; 04-18-2021 at 10:31 PM..
Reason: typo :-)
I've had 11 children & nursed them all. I'm a sahm who cooks & cleans (not well though, lol) but that's because I have a disabled child at home. Before my child was disabled, I was the main breadwinner for a decade even with kids, after starting college as a teenage mom with a 9th grade education.
I wear active wear & trail-running shoes every day but I LOVE dresses & skirts. I just don't have anywhere to wear them TO. I don't get mani/pedi's often (last time was 2016) but I wear makeup every day. My hair is past my waist; on hot days it's braided or in a ponytail but I wear it loose & curl the ends a lot too. I smile at guys who catcall me, I appreciate doors opened for me & I do silly things like flatter random guys by laughing at their jokes, lol.
I'm not a shopaholic; I rarely spend money on myself. This past year my entertainment included hiking every day, riding through the mountains on trains (with youngest, disabled child) & snow tubing. If amusement parks had been open I would have been on a lot of roller coasters too. But I'd come home to keep a grandbaby; in a heartbeat. I'm anti-feminism; I believe traditional roles build strong individuals, families & communities. I've been told in every single relationship that I assert myself "like a man". That's actually true. I'm dominant in relationships.
You are a masculine woman, which doesn't prevent you from curling your hair, raising 11 children and "loving dresses and skirts."
That's not what it's all about - whether you like skirts or not, even though the "girly girls" tend to prefer frills and ruffles - it's true.
If one writes on the left side of the column anything and everything that's regraded as "masculine traits" - things like... I dunno... straightforwardness, assertiveness, independence, intellectual challenge, athleticism, leadership, and whatever else you can think of as being typical "masculine traits," and on the right side of the column everything you'd ascribe to the traditional "feminine qualities" - things like compassion, love of children, caring, soul searching, being indecisive, and whatever else you can think of, THEN you can start figuring out whether you have "feminine" or "masculine" traits in you, irrespective of whether you are a man or a woman.
Hint: super-masculine men usually don't frequent psychology forums; they are not into digging into peculiarities of human psyche; less of all in their own))
I'd like to hear why you chose "other"? You consider art and foreign films "feminine" but yard work "masculine? And driving a pickup means "hypermasculine"...?
And yet you don't want to say you're even a little bit "feminine"? Why not?
LOL I chose "other" because this is the Internet and the topic is silly. I hope the OP isn't doing his doctoral thesis based on the responses to this poll.
But seriously, I don't agree that there is a "feminine/masculine continuum" with permanent roosting spots for each of us. We can sometimes be in one spot and sometimes in another depending on mood or circumstance.
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