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Old 05-04-2021, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,620,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msRB311 View Post
I had a 15 year old neighbor expose himself to me when I was 7. It happened more than once. That is really all that happened to me but I knew it was wrong and i guess it made me feel wrong. I told my mom when I was in my 30's.
Is he still doing it?
You waited over 20 years.
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:45 PM
 
3,320 posts, read 5,534,492 times
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I usually believe the victim but there are certainly plenty of instances where I shouldn't have.

Duke lacrosse case. The media, Duke University president, the gang of 88 Duke professors, almost everyone had those boys guilty, guilty, guilty and I believed it. Then (after about two years!) it came out that the accuser lied and in fact, the boys were innocent. Can you imagine being a college student accused of something like that and knowing you are innocent but not being believed? The lying DA only had to spend one day in jail if I remember correctly - at least he lost his law license. The only thing that makes me feel good about the whole incident is that the lacrosse boys ended up with many, many millions of dollars.

Kavanaugh. I originally assumed Ford was telling the truth. After hearing her testimony I couldn't believe she wasn't arrested and put in jail. She had no clue about so many details that she would have known if telling the truth. I felt awful that Kavanaugh and his family were put through that and I was ashamed to have believed Ford was telling the truth.

I believe you reap what you sow - karma and all that. People that abuse will pay for it and people that lie about being abused will also get their due.

Last edited by Charlotteborn; 05-04-2021 at 10:06 PM..
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Old 05-05-2021, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Southern MN
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The sad thing is that if the assaults have been long-standing sometimes the damage to the victim will affect his/her credibility - mental illness, inebriation, confusion, character disorder.

It can be a tangled web to unweave and it's nearly a guarantee than everyone involved will have a conflicting story.

My thought is to keep an open mind. Predators come in all varieties. Absolutely all.

Be a good listener. Offer suggestions for resources. Don't step into the family situation or "investigate" the alleged predator. This is dangerous for you, for the victim and for the case. If you'd like to report to social services it would be appropriate.

Make a note of what you are told and be prepared to assist with information. Support if you feel comfortable doing so.

If you are unsure of the truth of what you are being told here's my thought on that: You are still speaking with a person who is disturbed and expressing a need. You don't need to confirm any part of the story to comfort someone. Just focus on what they are feeling and be assuring.

Even if they are lying to get someone else in trouble they are emotionally disturbed. You don't want to play a part in that but encouraging outside help wouldn't be a destructive thing.

Whenever we open our mouths we are telling each other something about ourselves. The difficulty is in "translation."
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Old 05-05-2021, 10:16 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
15,199 posts, read 10,199,495 times
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My step-father tried to get me to sleep with him when I was in my early 20's. I didn't know him very well at that point but when I told my mother she said I must have "misunderstood, that he was trying to be affectionate and get to know me better". Yeah, he was trying to "know" me better, strictly in the Biblical sense.
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Old 05-05-2021, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
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There is another thing to toss into the affray. Once bitten, twice shy.

Once upon a time, there was someone who had such incredible bad luck, that everyone was loaning them money to help them out of the pit. Even I was ready to but regulations made it forbidden. They were just so nice, so sweet, so smiling, we all believed them.

It eventually came to the surface that for all their perils, they were lying. They were taking all given to them and not returning, not repaying, telling more stories to why they couldn't deliver, on and on, more and more.

Maybe that adds something to our instincts.
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Old 05-05-2021, 10:46 AM
 
13,262 posts, read 7,954,561 times
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I say, (as the question was asked) that I TEND to believe the accuser.


Kavanaugh...that was political theater, and there were bad actors.


Because of how I tend to think on the subject, and because of what I've been through, I'll never be selected for jury duty, regarding such a case, so I feel no need to scrutinize or challenge my own thought processes on the topic.


While the topic CAN be a hot button for me...in this discussion, it has not been one. I can understand that MY perspective is not everyone's perspective, and I think others have made good arguments on why they tend to believe the accused.
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Old 05-05-2021, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msRB311 View Post
Do you tend to believe the accusers of heinous crimes even when there is no proof?
I'm certainly willing to hear them out. Do I believe them? It depends on the circumstances. With the Kavanaugh case, his accuser struck me as a flagrant liar whose story had more holes than a crate of Swiss cheese and who wanted to "get" Kavanaugh for nakedly partisan reasons. But the boy who OD'ed? If he told no one except his own private journal, this in my mind makes his accusation far more credible. (Unless, that is, he was using mind-altering drugs at the time that he wrote it. Then I would be far more skeptical.) That said, it doesn't sit well with me that the gym teacher was fired. He had no opportunity to confront his accuser. Was there an investigation done? Did anyone else claim that they were abused by him? Not knowing the details of the case, I can't say for sure; but on the surface, it seems like he was treated unfairly.

My brother's first wife said that their son (my nephew) said that my father had molested him. Of course I asked my dad about it, and he denied the whole thing. Who to believe? My dad had never once molested me, and I have no reason to believe that he had ever done that to anyone else either. He had a reputation for honesty that had extended for the entire time that I had known him. My nephew, on the other hand, was well known for having an uncertain grip on reality and having a hyper-active imagination. The only thing that even remotely made the accusation even slightly plausible was that my dad was entering into a period of mental decline at that time, so it might have been possible that his mental circuits had gotten crossed and he did something that he never would have done prior to then. But still, I had to make a choice as to who to believe. I chose to believe my dad, and it caused a huge rift in my family that lasted until my dad passed away and then my brother's wife died of smoke inhalation from a house fire. It was unbearably painful for all of us, but I think I made the right call.
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Old 05-05-2021, 05:48 PM
 
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Obviously not the same situation, but I have a good friend whose younger brother passed away and she cleaned out his apartment. She found some of his old notebooks (teenage years) which described explicit, incestuous contact between the two of them, initiated by her, which had never taken place. She was shocked, totally grossed out, sick about it, and horrified at the thought that someone else might have discovered them and believed them. It pretty much ruined her memories of her brother and turned him into a creepy, disgusting pervert. I only met the guy a few times and he seemed "normal", but he obviously wasn't. Which is not to say that the young man in the OP was lying, of course. But it just seems impossible to sort out unless those who are assaulted/molested/abused immediately report it.
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Old 05-05-2021, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Sandy Eggo's North County
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msRB311 View Post
This sad story recently came out where a boy who graduated high school in 2005 (he'd be in his early 30's now) overdosed on drugs and passed away. He had a journal he had kept where he said he had been raped by a gym teacher. He has since been fired. I don't know either person whatsoever, I only read the stories.

My DH told my mom and I that he has friends from over the years who's kids had this teacher and they cannot imagine that he would ever do something like this and that it seems crazy. I have to admit that after seeing pictures of him online, seeing that he has a pretty wife and two kids it does seem hard to believe but certainly not impossible. Apparently some other kids came forward and said they guy could act creepy but mainly with the girls. However no one else has accused him rape. My mom basically got mad and said of course he must have done it and why would anyone say this and journal about it if it weren't true.

It made me think of that Brett Kavanaugh case where he was accused by a woman as a teen of rape. I believe he was never found guilty and man people thought the woman was crazy and lying.

There have been many cases as of late where people accuse someone of molestation years and years later. I also don't know why someone would say something that isn't true....but it happens. It sometimes feels like we just have to believe the accuser regardless.

Do you tend to believe the accusers of heinous crimes even when there is no proof?
Really, it depends on the past history of conduct of the accused. More often than not, there's a pattern that emerges, from the accused history. I'd place much greater weight on a charge, if there were a clear pattern of abuse.
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Old 05-05-2021, 06:56 PM
 
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Yes, I tend to believe them up to a point. There is usually "evidence" of some sort . . . the gym teacher kept the kid after school, he played favorites, his office had no windows or locks whereas that isn't the norm, the kid started cutting gym class or failing it, and so on. It isn't physical evidence like a rape kit, but it gives context. I look for the context.

It takes a lot of courage for a young person to accuse an adult. I still remember a ninth grade girl whose mother's boyfriend had raped her as an eighth grader. She told an adult, and he was eventually convicted. But everyone knew her as "that" girl, and she told me once that her mother hated her for ruining a "good thing." Imagine having to deal with that. Then imagine having had the courage to tell and no one doing anything about it, which also happens.

Several years ago a retired male teacher had a religious conversion and turned himself into the police department for having molested one of his students many years ago. She told, and she wasn't believed. This was despite the fact that he said to his class one day during a class, "Mary Jane seems to have ants in her pants today. For your test bonus, what color do you think Mary Jane's panties are today?" In fact, the principal made him Teacher of the Year the following year.

So, yes, if a kid accuses, I try to keep a fairly open mind but I do tend to believe. I am a little less believing with adults, but that's because they have more options.
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