Inability to Discuss Suicide and Get Help Without Serious Risk (thoughts, attractive)
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I'm so sorry to hear about your niece. She's already going through so much...and now dealing with the fear and bureaucracy of CPS. That's terrible. My heart goes out.
When I was in college one of my housemates went through a pretty severe depressive episode. It's easy to say that somebody should be there for people, if only a depressed person had support, yadda yadda. When this happened, we were all 20-21. None of us were mental health professional or caregivers. None of us knew what to do about our friend who wanted to stay in bed all day and didn't think life was worth living. We went to the campus counseling center, where they couldn't give us specific advice because we weren't family, but they did recommend that we hide all the knives in the house. It's immensely draining to deal with that, day after day, at a time in your life when you really want to be hanging out on the porch drinking beer. It's not fair to put someone else's mental heath on the shoulders of people who are not professionally trained for that. You can only care so much about someone who doesn't (or can't) care back.
Truth. I am my son's mother and even I don't have the resources to be the one and only solution here.
(Important thing to mention...he is a young adult, and does not live at home. He tried and failed with college and is now a roommate with other young adults and works sporadic and short term McJobs to get by. He also likes to self medicate with alcohol and cannabis.)
Unfortunately I have had to accept that even if this is a matter of actual ILLNESS, my son's agency is a piece that cannot be set aside. He is going to have to find reasons why he WANTS to live. He is not willing to give up his freedoms to be my ward, and I cannot afford to bear the cost of a kid who freely makes bad choices left and right. It came down to either I support you but you don't have the freedom...or you have the freedom but also deal with the consequences. He chose the latter. So he has to care about his own life, because I cannot do it for him.
The one time he took a bunch of his pills, he did find a reason that he was not ready to die. He called 911 on himself. He chose to live.
But when it comes to choosing wellness... I mean, we got him, finally, on meds that really seemed to be helping. And then I recently discovered that he's been lying to us and he's been off them for months. I cannot make him take them, if he refuses to take him.
Again, not unless we dial it back to "he is a child and I will care for him like one."
Which would also mean accepting that my own life does not matter as much as trying to force another person who is now an adult, to live theirs which they may be determined to throw away. So I can sacrifice my finances and my marriage and my future, to try and "save" someone who doesn't want to be saved. I mean, I love him a lot, but that seems like it might be...kind of a doomed effort. And what happens to him when I'm gone, if he has relied on me all his life, then?
So I am having to step back, having given him every tool I can think of from my own store of knowledge and wisdom and resources to try and set him up for success...but if he is determined to fail, he may fail.
And I'm sorry but acting like money isn't even a consideration... Kin Atoms says, "There is no cost in taking conservative measures to ensure safety and mitigate risks." Excuse me? Yeah, sure, there are hotlines. The one he's called will let you leave a message and they'll call back when they can. One time they sent police to find him and escort him to be "evaluated" where, having recently got out of a hospital lockdown, he lied his butt off so they'd let him go.
These lockups were also really depressing places to be. And again, you talk about getting someone past a point of impulsivity? It also trains them that they will be treated like a criminal, put into a place that feels like a jail, and saddled with massive debt for it when they get out. And it's not safe to speak to anyone, if "help" leaves you coming out at the end with huge bills and possibly the loss of your job to pay them, and a goodly risk you'll still feel the same. What happens when those feelings come back? I do agree that it would be nice if a person could get through an adjustment period on new meds under observation, but my son was never in there long enough for that, and if he had been, it would have cost thousands of dollars that neither he nor I have.
Now I did see a facility out there that was like a farm setting group home, and there is an urban mental health group home up north from me that looked really nice. They don't take insurance and they cost at least ten grand a month. No one in my life or my son's life has access to that kind of money. So again, I guess rich people's mental health is worth cupping one's hands carefully around and protecting, they can afford that sort of good solution. For the rest of us...well. One will find some resolve within oneself to survive, or one will not survive, I guess. It breaks my heart, but I just don't feel that the kinds of "help" that are out there, for many people, are a true solution to their situation.
I think that what my son needs most is community. I have encouraged him to find a social group, a church, even (though I'm not religious, if it works it works)...any kind of group of caring others to connect to. Honestly, I believe that the isolation from just regular connections with other people is what leads a lot of folks, especially young males these days, to feel so hopeless that they land in a suicidal mindset. They need a place to go where there are always people to feel a kind of belonging with, I think. Something to tether them to LIFE in a positive way.
Kin Atoms says, "There is no cost in taking conservative measures to ensure safety and mitigate risks." Excuse me?
Without question, mental health services in this country are a nightmare to negotiate. With that said, I will not rest (nor will the courts) if I make a faulty decision that allows someone to kill themselves.
Everyone has value. There are no costs to put over life. If so, what is the threshold?
Without question, mental health services in this country are a nightmare to negotiate. With that said, I will not rest (nor will the courts) if I make a faulty decision that allows someone to kill themselves.
Everyone has value. There are no costs to put over life. If so, what is the threshold?
Without question, the ability of courts to second-guess a decision creates a nightmare for those close to someone undergoing depression. The problem is that if one takes the "conservative" approach and locks someone up does one think that the person will immediately trust those there to help them? Even if confinement is not the result, a mere unconsented breach of confidentiality will lower trust. The risk there is that the same person might give someone an opportunity to save them if confidentiality was preserved.
A leak of that information, even on a one-time basis, will diminish or eliminate that trust. If the person is literally holding a gun to his (or someone else's) head or indicates that he is immediately about to plunge off a bridge or out a high window, sure, report it. But rest assured, even if the person is saved, if he's set on doing something stupid, next time, he'll keep his mouth shut.
Sonic, you mentioned community and you're so right. Immediately after my divorce, my own community abandoned me. Then moving where I did I couldn't find a community despite trying many different things. I'm fortunate I guess that I wasn't still suicidal when I moved here (though still had persistent chronic depression) because there was nobody to turn to. I also would not want to ever disclose I was feeling like that to anyone other than a friend. I wouldn't trust that confiding in a mental health professional wouldn't make my life worse.
I find the mental health options to be subpar at best. It's so hit or miss and can get very expensive even with insurance. We need better options in this country for sure. If I have to worry about what I'm spending or what my insurance won't cover, I'd rather not even bother with therapy. Sad, but true.
Sonic, I know your situation with your son is different and he's at a different stage of life. I know there's still hope for him, and I also know it's hard to help yourself when you're clinically depressed. I totally get that. You can help him, but you can't do it for him and I know that's hard.
In December of 2018 I was feeling quite depressed. Although I have dealt with dysthymia most of my life, this was a particularly bad few days. My mother was dying, the guy I had been seeing went back to his former girlfriend and I was just a mess. Things might have been okay except I took Ambien to help me sleep this one night which sent me into an worse downward spiral.
I left a suicide note regarding my feelings and about taking care of my dog and took the whole bottle of sleeping pills. When I woke up I was in the ICU and on a ventilator. I almost succeeded. From there it was 8 days in a local mental hospital which was truly a waste of time but that is a story for another day.
While there I met my roommate who was there because she made a casual remark at one of the local hospitals when they couldn't diagnose her abdominal pain. She said "well if you guys can't figure out what is wrong and help me with this pain I may as well jump off a bridge". She had no serious suicide intentions; she was just frustrated. She was there about 4 days and it wasn't until she got a lawyer involved that she was allowed to leave.
Many people believe that a person can only be held 72 hours for a suicide threat or attempt. Not true. They can go to a judge if the facility feels you are not cooperating with your treatment or are still a danger to yourself. They wouldn't give me my usual anti-anxiety drugs so I was not only having panic attacks, I was going through withdrawal. Also, if you have good insurance you will be there about 8 days. Everyone with insurance was there for around that amount of time. The psychiatrist that was "treating" me was fired shortly after I got in.
Although I sometimes still have suicide ideations, the thought of not succeeding and going back to that place is a serious deterrent.
Truth. I am my son's mother and even I don't have the resources to be the one and only solution here.
(Important thing to mention...he is a young adult, and does not live at home. He tried and failed with college and is now a roommate with other young adults and works sporadic and short term McJobs to get by. He also likes to self medicate with alcohol and cannabis.)
Unfortunately I have had to accept that even if this is a matter of actual ILLNESS, my son's agency is a piece that cannot be set aside. He is going to have to find reasons why he WANTS to live. He is not willing to give up his freedoms to be my ward, and I cannot afford to bear the cost of a kid who freely makes bad choices left and right. It came down to either I support you but you don't have the freedom...or you have the freedom but also deal with the consequences. He chose the latter. So he has to care about his own life, because I cannot do it for him.
The one time he took a bunch of his pills, he did find a reason that he was not ready to die. He called 911 on himself. He chose to live.
But when it comes to choosing wellness... I mean, we got him, finally, on meds that really seemed to be helping. And then I recently discovered that he's been lying to us and he's been off them for months. I cannot make him take them, if he refuses to take him.
Again, not unless we dial it back to "he is a child and I will care for him like one."
Which would also mean accepting that my own life does not matter as much as trying to force another person who is now an adult, to live theirs which they may be determined to throw away. So I can sacrifice my finances and my marriage and my future, to try and "save" someone who doesn't want to be saved. I mean, I love him a lot, but that seems like it might be...kind of a doomed effort. And what happens to him when I'm gone, if he has relied on me all his life, then?
So I am having to step back, having given him every tool I can think of from my own store of knowledge and wisdom and resources to try and set him up for success...but if he is determined to fail, he may fail.
And I'm sorry but acting like money isn't even a consideration... Kin Atoms says, "There is no cost in taking conservative measures to ensure safety and mitigate risks." Excuse me? Yeah, sure, there are hotlines. The one he's called will let you leave a message and they'll call back when they can. One time they sent police to find him and escort him to be "evaluated" where, having recently got out of a hospital lockdown, he lied his butt off so they'd let him go.
These lockups were also really depressing places to be. And again, you talk about getting someone past a point of impulsivity? It also trains them that they will be treated like a criminal, put into a place that feels like a jail, and saddled with massive debt for it when they get out. And it's not safe to speak to anyone, if "help" leaves you coming out at the end with huge bills and possibly the loss of your job to pay them, and a goodly risk you'll still feel the same. What happens when those feelings come back? I do agree that it would be nice if a person could get through an adjustment period on new meds under observation, but my son was never in there long enough for that, and if he had been, it would have cost thousands of dollars that neither he nor I have.
Now I did see a facility out there that was like a farm setting group home, and there is an urban mental health group home up north from me that looked really nice. They don't take insurance and they cost at least ten grand a month. No one in my life or my son's life has access to that kind of money. So again, I guess rich people's mental health is worth cupping one's hands carefully around and protecting, they can afford that sort of good solution. For the rest of us...well. One will find some resolve within oneself to survive, or one will not survive, I guess. It breaks my heart, but I just don't feel that the kinds of "help" that are out there, for many people, are a true solution to their situation.
I think that what my son needs most is community. I have encouraged him to find a social group, a church, even (though I'm not religious, if it works it works)...any kind of group of caring others to connect to. Honestly, I believe that the isolation from just regular connections with other people is what leads a lot of folks, especially young males these days, to feel so hopeless that they land in a suicidal mindset. They need a place to go where there are always people to feel a kind of belonging with, I think. Something to tether them to LIFE in a positive way.
Things were a lot different in the 1960s and 1970s, in the age of lobotomies and institutionalization. Mental health was not nearly as understood or appreciated. I'm not sure that in today's hyper-woke world that what happened to you would happen now. However, I would agree that there is still quite a bit of stigma attached to mental health issues. While I am part of a younger generation, and we more freely discuss these issues amongst ourselves, that's not to say that such problems will be well received in the public domain beyond our safe spaces. Part of the issue is that with so much media coverage of mass shootings and public unrest, a lot of these atrocities have been attached to mental health ailments. Obviously this does not bode well for others who are not homicidal and who need help pulling themselves out of their negative headspace. It still seems like a subject you need to hold close to your chest in hopes that you don't get targeted as an elevated risk factor for committing crimes against humanity. But I do think there are a lot bette resources out there for people struggling with mental health.
Sonic, you mentioned community and you're so right. Immediately after my divorce, my own community abandoned me. Then moving where I did I couldn't find a community despite trying many different things. I'm fortunate I guess that I wasn't still suicidal when I moved here (though still had persistent chronic depression) because there was nobody to turn to. I also would not want to ever disclose I was feeling like that to anyone other than a friend. I wouldn't trust that confiding in a mental health professional wouldn't make my life worse.
I find the mental health options to be subpar at best. It's so hit or miss and can get very expensive even with insurance. We need better options in this country for sure. If I have to worry about what I'm spending or what my insurance won't cover, I'd rather not even bother with therapy. Sad, but true.
Sonic, I know your situation with your son is different and he's at a different stage of life. I know there's still hope for him, and I also know it's hard to help yourself when you're clinically depressed. I totally get that. You can help him, but you can't do it for him and I know that's hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiluvr1228
In December of 2018 I was feeling quite depressed. Although I have dealt with dysthymia most of my life, this was a particularly bad few days. My mother was dying, the guy I had been seeing went back to his former girlfriend and I was just a mess. Things might have been okay except I took Ambien to help me sleep this one night which sent me into an worse downward spiral.
I left a suicide note regarding my feelings and about taking care of my dog and took the whole bottle of sleeping pills. When I woke up I was in the ICU and on a ventilator. I almost succeeded. From there it was 8 days in a local mental hospital which was truly a waste of time but that is a story for another day.
While there I met my roommate who was there because she made a casual remark at one of the local hospitals when they couldn't diagnose her abdominal pain. She said "well if you guys can't figure out what is wrong and help me with this pain I may as well jump off a bridge". She had no serious suicide intentions; she was just frustrated. She was there about 4 days and it wasn't until she got a lawyer involved that she was allowed to leave.
Many people believe that a person can only be held 72 hours for a suicide threat or attempt. Not true. They can go to a judge if the facility feels you are not cooperating with your treatment or are still a danger to yourself. They wouldn't give me my usual anti-anxiety drugs so I was not only having panic attacks, I was going through withdrawal. Also, if you have good insurance you will be there about 8 days. Everyone with insurance was there for around that amount of time. The psychiatrist that was "treating" me was fired shortly after I got in.
Although I sometimes still have suicide ideations, the thought of not succeeding and going back to that place is a serious deterrent.
Thank you for sharing your stories.
I think as a generality, we are a low empathy society. And those who can help ... have to 'squeeze' time in to help those in need.
I'm so sorry to hear about your niece. She's already going through so much...and now dealing with the fear and bureaucracy of CPS. That's terrible. My heart goes out.
I don't know the details of the message you received, but I know from a friend who experience it firsthand that if you have children, you need to be VERY careful about discussing any mental health issues that might be mistaken by a third party as indicating you are unfit to raise them. Many people go through down periods where they might talk about or research suicide methods, but very few of them follow up. Broadcasting such thoughts can negatively impact your ability to keep your children.
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