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If I could do it all over again I would have tried to never raise my voice. If you start it then you have to keep doing it in order for the kids to realize you're serious. They'll push it until you yell. For some kids they'll push it until you get out of your chair. That's a PITA when you've finally conditioned them to ignore you until you get up. Wear you out. And they love it.
It wasn't until my kids left and I had time that I raised two kittens and tried never raising my voice to them. Didn't want to have to chase them when they were naughty.
It worked really well. Required a lot of patience at first. It surprised so many people when I'd just say in a conversational tone of voice, "Don't do that" and they'd mind. I had people convinced that my cats could understand English and in a way I guess they did.
No I'm not. I do not think yelling is abusive unless you're yelling for no reason. Saying nasty things and name calling is another story.
I mean...plenty of studies and professionals who spend their lives studying such things disagree with you, but, hey, your simple belief on an anecdote of one trumps that, right?
Do I ever yell at my kids? Yes. Would I try to defend that or look for validation from perfect strangers for doing so? No.
I mean...plenty of studies and professionals who spend their lives studying such things disagree with you, but, hey, your simple belief on an anecdote of one trumps that, right?
Do I ever yell at my kids? Yes. Would I try to defend that or look for validation from perfect strangers for doing so? No.
Why are you being nasty about this?
No one wants to yell at their kids but it happens. I'm not looking for validation...but it does surprise me that so many people think yelling is harmful. It's not like I yell everyday, it's not my form of communication to them. This thread wasn't even meant to just be about yelling either.
I think sometimes people are being abused and they dont realize it. They think the behavior is normal and those are the people to worry about. A husband not liking your new dress isnt emotional abuse. Disciplining a child verbally isn't abuse. Spanking used to be pretty common and now it's not done anymore...or if anyone does it they dont admit it. I do agree that spanking is stupid. It doesnt make sense to hit your child yet you wouldnt hit someone else. I wouldnt hit my dog either.
Some people believe that if you hit the child or dog they will never do whatever they did again. Not sure that's the case. My next door neighbor actually told me she has spanked her kids when they do something dangerous.
I have also heard that yelling at your partner is also abusive. My DH and I have had arguments where we've yelled. I guess we're abusing each other? I mean there's no way people can be calm and collected all the time. I admire people who never ever raise their voice. They are lucky.
I don't actually believe that spanking versus not spanking is the issue.
I think that kids respond best to consistency. If a child knows that this behavior will always trigger this reasonable but unpleasant response, it is consistent, the parent is delivering it in a way that they're in control of themselves and the situation, then the kid will feel safe that the world they are in is reliable, sane, orderly. To me, it's when parents are letting their moods dictate their responses, flying off the handle, disciplining because of anger rather than a rational response to a situation... And that might be physical, verbal, whatever.
One time I accidentally damaged something that belonged to my Mom, and I was ashamed and afraid and did not want her to find out, so I hid it...but not very well. When she found out, she came into my room with an art project I'd made at school that I was really proud of, and with a furious expression of rage on her face, tore it to pieces and threw it on my floor.
She threw a tantrum. She didn't yell, or hit me. But personally, that response felt "abusive." It was cruel, it was inappropriate behavior for an adult, and it was done in anger.
You think that people can't be calm and collected all of the time? OK, maybe not 100%, but I ask you, how is it that we feel entitled to less self control than we expect of the child? We expect a child to be quiet, not to scream and throw tantrums, and yet we think we can do that? If you can't even control yourself, how on earth are you supposed to inspire confidence from your kid that you can care for them and keep them safe in the world, how can you expect to teach them to control their behavior?
I admit that I did swat some backsides when my sons were little. But we are talking right after they learned to walk and talk, and it stopped before they reached age 5. They were diapered and I don't believe I ever really hurt them. Mostly, like the instances where there was a raised voice, it was mostly a matter of "Hey!! You will stop ignoring me and pay attention right now! This is not a game!" They were big enough to get into mischief but too small to reason with. But it was not long at all before they got old enough to think things through a little bit better, and we transitioned to, "Do you need a spanking?" in a stern voice, and they would stop the behavior. Hell, probably months or years after the last time they actually had one, that continued to work.
But I was never acting in an out of control rage.
As for whether yelling is abuse, too, besides the emotional context of it, it also depends on WHAT you are saying or yelling at your kids. There are words that can cut deeper than hitting or spanking a kid ever will. Hell, I remember one time when I was little and I was crying in my room over a nightmare or who knows what, and my father came in and spanked me, and you know...I don't remember how the spanking felt. But I can hear his voice in my head to this day, saying, "I'll give you something to cry about" and I remember very clearly how unloved I felt afterwards, when I continued to cry, only this time, silently, in my bed. Sometimes the words are worse, because they never really go away.
Oh my mom definitely said hurtful things to me...my dad as well. I think they were good parents but became overly frustrated. I probably did experience some emotional abuse by most psychology standards because my parents (mostly my mom) couldn't keep their mean thoughts to themselves. I also got compared a lot to cousins and friends kids. I didnt feel as good as them and that is something that I WILL never want my kids to feel. These are more reasons why I don't think yelling, stop jumping on the couch! or no you cannot have a 3rd helping of gummy candy are that big a deal.
Yep. Not speaking to your partner because you're upset can be viewed as emotional abuse. Yelling or speaking about something your partner might disagree with is verbal abuse.
Yet ignoring problems is viewed as not being open or letting things fester.
Basically if you're not perfect in a relationship at all times you're screwed.
Some of what you describe is really more a function of asking strangers on the internet to interpret a situation without any context.
I think that a lot of behaviors that CAN be abuse might not be abuse or signs of an abusive relationship, even if they're not healthy behaviors.
The hallmark is a desire by one partner to gain/maintain power and control over the other. Some things are clearly abusive behaviors, but others are symptoms that aren't, alone, indicative.
So...you're looking for validation to yell at your children?
Ineffective or unhealthy behaviors aren't inherently abusive. There are lots of things that fall under "bad" but not "abuse." My parents yelled at me; they weren't abusive. Actually, my dad didn't yell, hardly at all. Mom did. But Dad could have been way more abusive without ever raising his voice or his hand if he wanted to (he wasn't.) He naturally instilled a fear that had he taken another direction, could have been really bad.
Some people are just yellers. I had an aunt who yelled all the time. She's just a loud person but her kids love her and she has loads of friends. She did yell at her kids and she yelled at me if I was around. I one time cried when she yelled at me. Her kids were confused as to why I was upset. I had an uncle who yelled and it was terrifying to me.
My co worker told me she went to another co workers house whose parents are from Italy. She thought they were fighting because they were yelling and went to leave. The friend was like what? No they're not fighting they're just talking. Yelling is different things to different people I guess. I am not a yeller so when I do happen to yell I've been pushed to the max.
For sure. You can be in it, and not even realize it. I was twice. The first time I was newly out the parental abode and just thought, "Oh he really likes me! Wants to spend 24/7 with me and doesn't need any of his own friends." Nor did I have any friends, and barely realized it.
Second time, I got out of there. I didn't even hear the word "abuse" until a counselor used it for them. Part of the narcissistic personality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIcatfarmer
Same. I don’t think the term is now being overused, I think we’re starting to properly label abusive behavior. A friend read some texts a guy I was involved with at the time sent. I had become accustomed to his harsh way of expressing himself. He sent something like: “Man you’re an idiot! Why the @&$! did you think I was staying home?”
She asked me if I understood verbal abuse. What a relief I felt, it has a label, it’s a “thing”. Sometimes we learn late in life, or it sneaks up on us like it did me, but it feels awful when it’s happening. Abusive.
Right, you two! And I agree that the term narcissism is NOT being overly used as many may think. My fiance' didn't know his entire immediate fam were narcs, but he's definintely known now, but not after doing some research. He's literally gone no-contact w/ them all (both parents & 3 siblings...1 of them is his twin brother) once he learned that narcs NEVER change, but actually get worse as time goes. I could see from a mile away they were cold, no-feeling, smart-arse jerks, but back then, I didn't know ithey were actually narcs either, but I had heard of the term before.
My undergrad college major was psychology/behavioral sci & those courses didn't even really touch on narcissism hardly that I recall, if at all. But, there's certainly enough about narcissism to have an entire course (& more) on it. Unfortunately, regular people aren't going to take a college course or more about it, so unless they know to do their own study & research & actually do it, they won't know. There's plenty of grown adults in their 40s & up who've never heard the term NARCISSISM.
Fiance' & I have been thinking about HOW to explain it all to my mom who knows nothing about it. She just knows the surface basic such as they only think about themselves. Yes, but there's more characteristics than that & numerous facets about it all. And you can't just tell a laymen person snippets of a narc's actions like one day they did this & then a month later, they did that. They'll never get it. You have to start from the beginning & explain it well. First I'd list all the common characteristics of a narc & explain those w/ even examples of those actions. THEN, explain the definitions of common terms such as: Gaslighting, love-bombing, etc. Then, we'd have to actually describe what my fiance's family did/do.
It can be exhausting because you literally feel like you're teaching a college class to truly get someone who knows nothing about it to understand & since my Mom's parents & family were nothing like that, it's going to be all the more difficult for her to see it. She seems to just think there are good parents & bad ones meaning the more obvious (alcoholics, molesters, etc.), but narcissism is a psychological/mental aspect that can look all perfect outwardly, but so horrendous interally.
Narcs are complete wastes of space on this earth!
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