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Old 08-05-2022, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Southern MN
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Thinking more on this I wonder if it isn't also a habit of the young. In my case the word young is relative but I have seen this in myself and also in generations coming up.

As we grow we start picking up a set of values that we adhere to, most of us go on to incorporate them into our lives. Perhaps we go to higher education or to a job which matches those values and begin to learn more about them. We become pretty sure that we have a plan for the best way to live and many of us, depending on our personality style, become champions of a certain kind of life-style.

Nowhere has that become more obvious in my lifetime than the emergence of what some people call the "social justice warrior." The certainty of their convictions is so strong that they actually preach that if you aren't actively calling out all unprescribed behaviors then you are guilty of being actively against their goals.

I can relate that misled, starry-eyed enthusiasm to awakenings in my own lifetime that I could think of someone as being in error if they did not see things my way. To me that's an error of inexperience and lack of knowledge of the other. I think you've got to get your hands dirty and get knocked down a few times before you get the message that speaking from the podium doesn't work well in real life. You need to get out there and practice your values and find out what works and what doesn't instead of trusting that you are right.

And you see on the job that some of those people you think have pretty shabby values systems can be good at things you haven't learned to do well at all. And you gain a sense of humility about that old expression, "it takes all kinds."

Perhaps some of the more negative viewpoints we apply to virtue signaling don't arise out of bad motives. People usually aren't thinking of you at all, like Tamara Savannah reminded me yesterday. They are thinking about how they want to present themselves.
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:36 PM
 
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Looking at it from the point of view of an anthropologist, much of human behavior like being judgemental derives from the basic competitive nature of human beings. We are wired to be tribal and to constantly look for ways to gain power over others, to be superior. All primates behave this way.
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:12 PM
 
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Insecurity.
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Old 08-05-2022, 10:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukiyo-e View Post
Insecurity.
That does seem to sum it up. Thank you.
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Old 08-05-2022, 10:19 PM
 
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Default Thank you to all the contributors here.

I appreciate all to the respondents for their insightful contributions to my question. Many of you have given me food for thought, by offering a perspective I had not considered. I feel like I have a better understanding now.

It seems, in general, most who answered believe it is a natural human trait, many have listed feelings of being threatened, insecure, and/or the need to be superior to others.

I now have another question: having read the question, formed an answer, or more than one, do you believe your awareness of this trait in others has caused you to recognize it in yourselves? If so, is it a trait you believe you have power over to resist it?

If we all do it, does the recognition that we are doing it give us power over it?
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Old 08-06-2022, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Southern MN
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Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry View Post
I appreciate all to the respondents for their insightful contributions to my question. Many of you have given me food for thought, by offering a perspective I had not considered. I feel like I have a better understanding now.

It seems, in general, most who answered believe it is a natural human trait, many have listed feelings of being threatened, insecure, and/or the need to be superior to others.

I now have another question: having read the question, formed an answer, or more than one, do you believe your awareness of this trait in others has caused you to recognize it in yourselves? If so, is it a trait you believe you have power over to resist it?

If we all do it, does the recognition that we are doing it give us power over it?
That's a good question and one I have pondered. In the early 2000s I ran it by a couple of friends and asked them how they dealt with the tendency toward judgementalism. To a person their answers included being able to discriminate between what irritated them and what was an actual threat to their safety.

Edited to add:
I see I didn't answer the question about control. I think this could depend on a couple of things.
If a person has a diagnosable condition it's possible that paranoia or obsession, something like that, could interfere with their ability to moderate it.

For people without that extra burden it may depend on how much of a personal reward you feel when that little judger inside of your head does his thing. It might not be as easy as just stopping and may require some self-esteem work and learning other ways to feel good about yourself.

Last edited by Lodestar; 08-06-2022 at 11:57 AM..
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Old 08-06-2022, 02:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
...It might not be as easy as just stopping and may require some self-esteem work and learning other ways to feel good about yourself.
I think your whole post was astute, and this last sentence is especially germane. I know from my own experiences in the early years of this century that I learned a number of coworkers thought I had too lofty of an opinion of myself, and I sought counselling to get help in understanding why they said so. I learned that it was distinctly possible that my mother (my primary parent) was quite possibly a narcissist. I could not afford extensive counselling, but my counselor recommended that I begin a Mindfulness practice. Essentially, I had to completely re-parent myself, using the tools taught by the Buddhist philosophy.

That was in 2007, and the work still goes on.
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Old 08-06-2022, 02:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry View Post
I think your whole post was astute, and this last sentence is especially germane. I know from my own experiences in the early years of this century that I learned a number of coworkers thought I had too lofty of an opinion of myself, and I sought counselling to get help in understanding why they said so. I learned that it was distinctly possible that my mother (my primary parent) was quite possibly a narcissist. I could not afford extensive counselling, but my counselor recommended that I begin a Mindfulness practice. Essentially, I had to completely re-parent myself, using the tools taught by the Buddhist philosophy.

That was in 2007, and the work still goes on.
But did you think that of yourself as well? Did your counselor determine that you think too highly of yourself? I think we do know our faults but sometimes it is hard to know and it comes as a shock when it is pointed out.

I don't know if you are a man or a woman, I have not been paying attention. I wonder how often men would be seen that way as opposed to women.

What did you learn from your mindfulness practice and do you feel you are in control of that tendency?
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Old 08-06-2022, 03:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
But did you think that of yourself as well? Did your counselor determine that you think too highly of yourself?


What's interesting in the example given is that sometimes you have an appropriate level of self-esteem. The issue is other people have a low opinion of you; therefore, your view of yourself clashes with their view of you. Ironically, some of these same people often have extremely high standards for you even though you don't meet their basic expectations of what they think you should be.

Is there a psychological term for people who think like that?
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Old 08-06-2022, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
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This has recently caused a rift in our family. Our twin daughter and son in law have become obsessed with judgemental wokeness. They are desperate to find and stamp out all wrong thinking like prejudice, seixism, zenophobia. They feel that they must find it even when it is not there or when they simply do not understand things, because it is their purpose to fight this evil. If they cannot find anything to fight against, they create something by twisting someones statement out of context. They are condescending, judgemental, closed minded, insulting, bullyish, all in the name of the great God of wokeness. They seem to love nothing more than to team up and try to shame someone into their way of thinking or at least shame them into silence even if the person has not done anything wrong or incorrect. Recently they turned their attacks on me and their mother. I was already fed up with the way they attack other people. I just discontinued any contact with them. They are otherwise terrific people when they are not on their wokeness kicks, but it is getting more and more common. We were a very close family. This is tearing me up, but I do not see any way forward. I love them dearly, but I do not want to be around them when they act like this.



This close minded, unfounded condescending wokeness judgemental-ism is probably the worst trend I have encountered in my life. It is as bad, maybe worse than the real prejudice, sexism, homophobia, or xenophobia that I have encountered. I am sad, mortified, and somewhat ashamed to have some of my kids jump on this bandwagon. At least the other three do not seem to be this way. Some of them are into the wokeness stuff, but not the judging and condemning everyone who does do wokeness with them.
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