Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Most people I know who are drawn to abusive relationships were abused physically and/or sexually(usually both) as a child
Is it a matter of low self esteem where they don’t think they deserve better?
Or is it a normalcy thing where it’s all they know and they don’t even realize it’s a bad thing to be abused because it’s what they endured growing up.
it is called 'trauma bonding' and you can google it. i had a woman who was molested by her dad, who also got sexually assaulted at a bar by a gang who lead her out drunk and assaulted her in a car and then laughed at her and drove away.. she found a group psychotherapist, who kept her for twenty years and was abusing her himself like a little girl in a corner.. he would flirt with her, shame her, make her feel bad, just kept her around and talked to her in a nasty manipulative and disrespectful way, but also flirted with her and charmed her, played the older married refined guy who charms women with his intellect.. so he was a horrible therapist and an unethical guy, and it was essentially she went from one abusive guy which was her dad, to another abusive guy which was her therapist. He kind of taught her to drive people away and be superficial with people and be emotionally dependent on him.
Most people I know who are drawn to abusive relationships were abused physically and/or sexually(usually both) as a child
Is it a matter of low self esteem where they don’t think they deserve better?
Or is it a normalcy thing where it’s all they know and they don’t even realize it’s a bad thing to be abused because it’s what they endured growing up.
No clue. I was both sexually abused (by a relative) and physically bullied in school (literally assaulted more than once).
I turned out fine. Zero issues. Other than having ZERO tolerance for bullying behavior. I don't even care whose kid it is. I see it, I'm gonna say something.
But I had full support from my family for both situations, so perhaps that makes the difference.
Sonic_Spork nailed it. She described my experience exactly. I think that I was subconsciously trying to go back and fix my childhood. I kept seeking out father figures who would give me the love, guidance and support I didn't receive at home. A damaged, needy woman like I was, eager to please but with no boundaries, would be catnip to an abuser. Emotionally healthy women wouldn't put up with him, and emotionally healthy men want an equal partner, not a child-woman.
I don't think abusers rationally seek out their victims though. I mean some of them probably do, but there's a certain hmm dynamic that is created when someone is abusive and the other person doesn't know how to deal with that.
In essence people are just different and it's critical to be able to defend yourself against others who don't have YOUR best interests in mind. If someone is so egotistical that they never take your feelings into account and they overstep your boundaries constantly, you either need to get out, or address the issue. If you can't address it, it probably means you are in a circle that should break. Relationships and friendships are about being able to express yourself.
But I guess it's all nice and easy when someone is not in that abusive relationship. But still, even if someone is, there are ways out and other people can and will help. But first and foremost, you must be able to help yourself. By opening up and talking about it, be it with your friends, your family, with the person that is starting to get abusive IF that is safe or possible, with a therapist, or in the worst case maybe even the police.
The part that you are not mentioning, is that the abusive person seeks out susceptible ppl, what you might call ppl pleasing type persons....grooms them by being so nice...butter wouldn't melt in their mouths...sweet...Then after they are dependent on the abuser...it starts. And part of the dynamic is seperating them from their support system...family friends, etc.
I think there is a lot of normalizing or programming. I was in an abusive relationship in my early 20s. I had this moment where I saw we were BOTH playing parts we had been groomed to as kids. I saw that I couldn't override his programming but I could mine so I walked. It wasn't about what I did or didn't deserve. My self esteem was pretty non existent but I knew this wasn't ideal. I just thought it was part of life. I didn't get I had a choice.
The part that you are not mentioning, is that the abusive person seeks out susceptible ppl, what you might call ppl pleasing type persons....grooms them by being so nice...butter wouldn't melt in their mouths...sweet...Then after they are dependent on the abuser...it starts. And part of the dynamic is seperating them from their support system...family friends, etc.
Sonic Spork could teach many licensed therapists lessons.
I have a few observations, and ways I might respond to this thread. I'll try to summarize a few of them.
First, there really are people who are sociopaths and psychopaths even before there is any parental or other influence. How their brains formed that way, what defect causes that, that is irrelevant. The point is that they exist, through no fault of their own, through no fault of the parents lack of trying, no fault of development. I am egalitarian in nature, but have come to recognize this over the years. Those people are dangerous and deadly. They can also be highly attractive and seem like "a catch" or "a true leader."
Second, abuse happens to boys in similar proportions as happens to girls. Girls grow up to be women who are more likely to reach out and seek support, but abuse is not something that happens to just one sex.
Third, a few lucky couples get to experience a connection that is not co-dependent, but inter-dependent. In Jungian parlance, each of the two have (more or less) fully developed anima and animus and can avoid projection of internal work onto the partner. Instead, the values and mores of each real-life chosen partner is consistent with the anima and animus of the other partner, and a major reason why they got together initially.
The effect of such confluency is that the "couple" manifestation is completely consistent with the manifestations of the individuals, and each holds the other in highest regard, while maintaining their own individuality. In various ways, most couples strive to reach some variation of this inter-dependence, no matter how flawed the attempts and reasoning involved.
When the anima and animus are not fully developed, there is projection, and the attempt towards inter-dependence is mistakenly to twist the partner into consistency with the projection. This happens for both abuser and the abused. Their internal work is being projected out onto each other.
The cultural institution of marriage in the U.S. thrust people together with under-developed anima and animus, and with women at financial disadvantage. That started to change in the 1970s and is still in transition. Until there is understanding, both sexes will play "power-over" games in attempts to reach dominance or parity.
There are a number of other ways I might comment, but those are enough.
I don't think abusers rationally seek out their victims though.
I think there's a small percentage of abusers who are also sociopathic predators and do consciously seek out people they can victimize. But in the vast majority of cases it's more subtle than that. When they're interacting with women, they're going to find things like assertiveness a turn-off - what a ball-buster! She has a close relationship with her dad and mom? Who wants to deal with meddling in-laws? She has a great job? Look, the way I was raised, it's the man who's supposed to be the breadwinner. She has a circle of good girlfriends? Ugh, when a bunch of women get together it sounds like a flock of hens clucking. She's physically strong? Gross, she looks like a man.
Whereas someone who lets him push her boundaries, even if she seems uncomfortable about it? Wow, that's hot, she's demure but she wants to please me. Someone who is always trying to keep him happy? What a sweet girl. Someone who doesn't have a lot of friends or family looking out for her? Hey, it's nice to be needed, right? We'll have each other, and that's enough. She's struggling financially or with other aspects of her life? I can be her white knight! She's petite or otherwise physically delicate? I like a woman who makes me feel big and strong next to her.
Now, I'm obviously not saying every man who has these ideas or preferences about women is an abuser or will behave abusively, or that being lonely and broke makes a woman a sadsack doormat or whatever. Certainly lots of normal men prefer petite women or find shyness endearing. Certainly it's normal to try to make your significant other happy. Certainly we all have our struggles that a significant other could help us out with. But I am saying that abusers tend to have a critical mass of these preferences because they cannot see themselves in a relationship with someone they can't dominate. A woman who has lots of attributes that make her obviously independent or hard to cow will be unattractive to this kind of a person, whereas to this kind of person, a woman whose traits and situation make her appear more dependent and easier to cow will feel like girlfriend material.
Quote:
But I guess it's all nice and easy when someone is not in that abusive relationship. But still, even if someone is, there are ways out and other people can and will help. But first and foremost, you must be able to help yourself. By opening up and talking about it, be it with your friends, your family, with the person that is starting to get abusive IF that is safe or possible, with a therapist, or in the worst case maybe even the police.
Here's the thing: if you have supportive friends and family and access to therapy and all that, you're much less likely to end up locked into an abusive situation in the first place. Like, I know someone whose parents sided with the abusive husband when she left him, because in their family it isn't done to leave your spouse. Moreover, let's say you do have a place to go and people to help: one of the most statistically dangerous things a woman can do is leave an abusive significant other. The "if I can't have you, no one can" thing is very real, and law enforcement generally isn't super helpful. People aren't wrong to be scared to leave. Now, I'm not saying that that should make them stay, but I am saying that their best bet is to leave with a good plan in place, but often they don't have the resources to put a good plan in place, so then what are they do to? So it's not as easy as just "opening up."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
And I know that in my case, my ex was not some kind of malicious, calculating villain. His behavior wasn't something he planned out. It wasn't some kind of clever scheme. Not even some of the manipulation, it was just very in-the-moment. It was clear to me that HE was mentally unhealthy, and there was always this feeling that if I could just make his life easier and better, he'd be his kinder and happier self...if only I could make him understand what his actions and words looked like from the outside, he would stop behaving that way.
This is spot on. Yes, there are some abusers who are just monsters. But in most cases we're talking about someone who does have lots of loveable traits, and is person you can have sympathy for, and often even has good intentions, but engages in behaviors that make them dangerous for the mental and/or physical well-being of those around them. Especially when the worst of those behaviors only occur sporadically it can be easy to lie to yourself and think things like "well, all couples fight" or "every relationship has its ups and downs" or "I'm not so easy to get along with either" or whatever. Until you find yourself once again in a crisis situation. But then the crisis passes, and it's like "was it really as big a thing as I was making out of it..." Often it takes something really catastrophic to happen to force you to confront the reality of the relationship head-on.
Why are people assuming this is only a male on female phenomenon? There are certainly women who can be abusive, and it may be a female on male, male on male, or female on female phenomenon. I’ve certainly heard of the first within my circle, and have also had suspicions in other situations. The techniques may be slightly different. For example, I knew of a couple where the wife would threaten suicide if her husband didn’t do what he wanted and would also resort to calling DCF to make accusations that he abused her.
I really don’t think there is any calculation going on in the majority of these situations. Most of these people try their techniques with LOTS of other people, but most of us have enough self confidence and a large enough support network that we can quickly stop once we see the signs. That is not to say there aren’t abusers who actively seek out victims and groom them.
Why are people assuming this is only a male on female phenomenon? There are certainly women who can be abusive, and it may be a female on male, male on male, or female on female phenomenon. I’ve certainly heard of the first within my circle, and have also had suspicions in other situations. The techniques may be slightly different. For example, I knew of a couple where the wife would threaten suicide if her husband didn’t do what he wanted and would also resort to calling DCF to make accusations that he abused her.
I really don’t think there is any calculation going on in the majority of these situations. Most of these people try their techniques with LOTS of other people, but most of us have enough self confidence and a large enough support network that we can quickly stop once we see the signs. That is not to say there aren’t abusers who actively seek out victims and groom them.
I’m not, and sadly it’s happening to someone in my family . His wife is emotionally abusive , manipulative, silent treatment, threats etc. There was definitely calculation on the part of the wife in this situation from the get go. He loves the part of her when she’s nice, and she is nice just enough to keep him hooked and with several small children he is trapped ( for now).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
