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I think that is an overly simplistic view. There is a lot human emotional bias that goes into such decisions. Politics, as they say. There is favoritism in the workplace just as there is negative cliquish behavior. If all outcomes were empirical-based and merit-based, a lot more people would be better off or worse off than the existing paradigm dictates.
Is it really politics or just the social mores of our society? America is not Japan or Finland where workplace culture is more introverted and quiet. In this country, being open and extroverted is the norm and employers seem to be more comfortable with workers who represent those attributes. I imagine it has to do with engagement and transparency rather than something sinister like you're inferring.
This came up on another thread which linked a "news" story about someone getting fired for a reason.
Queue the laughter, mockery, denigration.
"What an idiot!"
"Guess she'll learn her lesson next time."
At face value, the story seemed to actually empathize with the subject of the story, in that the employer's response to the situation was incredibly harsh. No matter, people were quick to judge and criticize the individual even though they don't know the facts of the story or the character of this particular person. The majority of the sentiments leaned heavily towards "haha, you suck, better luck next time" than it did "that sucks, hope they learn something, and land on their feet".
I tend to believe that there is always some linkage to our deep-rooted, biological traits that describe our most primal, visceral reactions to things. So, what is going on in these situations? Is this behavior tied to a 'survival of the fittest' mentality? I love this analogy and I think it describes this well: it's easy to judge someone else's bad breath even though your own nose, which sits right above your mouth, has trouble detecting your own bad breath.
ehhhh.............I wouldn't go that deep.
Too many people today play the victim card, poor me the world is against me. I look at it like this: If she was 2 minutes late and worked on a train, plane or ship.............she would have been left behind. Yeah its only 2 minutes but if work starts at 8 and you are late on your 2nd day do you really want the job?
I hired a kid years ago that showed up at the wrong place (15 miles wrong). I had never had that happen before, I gave the kid the benefit of the doubt. Turns out the kid was a moron, nicest person in the world but dumb as dirt. He showed me his lack of intelligence on the first day and I overlooked it as a mistake. Thankfully the kid quit a few months later. I wished him the best, told him a big box store/grocery store setting would be ideal for him because they will have a company way to do everything and he can follow along in their 14 page manual on how to sweep a floor or stock a shelf.
My irk with today: Too many people want to live on their own terms, yet want you to pay for it. Work from home, "social media life" takes precedence over real life/real work. I've never served in the military, but to take a page from their handbook..........They set the schedule/they tell you what to do and ANY variance from that is the wrong way..........period. Too many people really believe they are smarter than the system therefore they are right but oh yeah I need your paycheck to live.
Human nature. It all too common. At it is root, either it makes us feel superior to others, or it makes us grateful to avoid their situation. It is ego either way. It is just human nature.
A kid falls down. All the other kids laugh at him. You can't get more basic than that.
Adults can't shake that nature. Culture can make you feel guilty about it or can make you temper your enjoyment, but it is hard to eliminate that from basic human nature.
Some of it is even beneficial. If you are tired of being laughed at for failing, just maybe you will put out the effort and take steps to stop failing. Sometimes it provides useful motivation to improve yourself, which improves society generally, so a cultural positive.
I don't know what you're talking about, Igor. What do you mean, "adults can't shake that nature"? They not only can, but they do. It's called "maturity". It's what differentiates them from children. Hello?
For that matter, how many children laugh when someone falls down, vs. rushing to help the child back up, or at the very least, asking, "are you ok?" Children have empathy, and some express it when an occasion to do so arises.
IDK what kind of environment you were raised in, or went to school in, that you feel it's normal and part of human nature to laugh at other people's pain. Ew.
Your job it does not matter. In your life and where you have to be would be effected by others being late.
Do you expect stores to open on time? Your appointments to be on time? Your flight to be on time? Train to be on time? Etc.
Lateness effects everyone. It is like a domino effect.
I agree with you there.
Like I said, I don't really want to get into the weeds about whether the young woman was right or wrong, or a victim of an overbearing employer. For one, I don't really care that much about that particular story, and it's also besides the main point that I brought up in the OP. The main point is about the harsh judgment and mockery she received from this relatively insignificant infraction, at least per her account only. Because in the reality that I live in each day, trains are late, planes are late, stores open a few minutes late, etc. I'm not advocating for more of that obviously. I'm just saying it happens, and it appears that it happened only once for this individual and it was over an honest mistake. I like City Guy's approach in that he gathered more data points before determining that his new hire was more or less a doofus who couldn't be relied on.
Too many people today play the victim card, poor me the world is against me. I look at it like this: If she was 2 minutes late and worked on a train, plane or ship.............she would have been left behind. Yeah its only 2 minutes but if work starts at 8 and you are late on your 2nd day do you really want the job?
I hired a kid years ago that showed up at the wrong place (15 miles wrong). I had never had that happen before, I gave the kid the benefit of the doubt. Turns out the kid was a moron, nicest person in the world but dumb as dirt. He showed me his lack of intelligence on the first day and I overlooked it as a mistake. Thankfully the kid quit a few months later. I wished him the best, told him a big box store/grocery store setting would be ideal for him because they will have a company way to do everything and he can follow along in their 14 page manual on how to sweep a floor or stock a shelf.
My irk with today: Too many people want to live on their own terms, yet want you to pay for it. Work from home, "social media life" takes precedence over real life/real work. I've never served in the military, but to take a page from their handbook..........They set the schedule/they tell you what to do and ANY variance from that is the wrong way..........period. Too many people really believe they are smarter than the system therefore they are right but oh yeah I need your paycheck to live.
I think your handling of the kid's situation was fair, at least from my perspective. In the particular story I'm referencing, it doesn't even seem like the young woman got a 2nd chance for the relatively small infraction of being 2 minutes late.
As for your comparison to the military, that's a lot different. When you join the military, you're signing a contract. They essentially take care of you (housing, food, healthcare, education) in exchange for your commitment to serving your country and potentially putting your life on the line. Employment in America is mostly at will. You can be terminated at any time for any reason, and you can also leave at any time for any reason. In order to get more of a commitment from people, there needs to be more skin in the game from the employer. But they aren't willing to do that, and that's completely fine. It's a business and they need the flexibility to respond to changing environments at any given moment. The stuff you mention about WFH is just a changing of the tide. In most cases, it's mutually beneficial. Employers save on operating expenses while employees receive a flexible work benefit. If you want more commitment than that, then you need to be willing to sign a contract offering up some guarantees or else you'll find it pretty difficult to compete in the labor marketplace. Employment is a relationship like any other. Not many people are going to choose to be in an overly-controlling relationship if they have options. And skilled, experienced, quality workers usually do.
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I don't see anyone enjoying others fail, but then again, I don't watch or read the "news". I keep myself from being exposed to junk and nonsense and promotion of the worst of humanity (for titilation, entertainment, or whatever their end game is).
People used to block, ignore, or reject that type of thing, but now people seek it, to be offended and angered. It's always been around, but now is promoted and shoved in front of peoples faces for attention and reaction. Hate and dysfunction sell.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 02-20-2023 at 12:01 PM..
Is it really politics or just the social mores of our society? America is not Japan or Finland where workplace culture is more introverted and quiet. In this country, being open and extroverted is the norm and employers seem to be more comfortable with workers who represent those attributes. I imagine it has to do with engagement and transparency rather than something sinister like you're inferring.
No, I'm saying that you can literally do everything seemingly right and not necessarily thrive or succeed. You can be a saint in the community and have a manager not like you for one reason or another. Acting like if everyone just followed the rules and did their jobs (which was the comment I responded to originally) then they would be successful and thriving is both naïve and disingenuous. Human emotional behavior guarantees that this is not a certainty in life. Is it sinister or nefarious? No, not necessarily. It's human nature, biases, emotions, social upbringing that play a major role in it. There is a local business that gives people with mental and learning disabilities employment opportunities. The business used to be based in a very upscale neighborhood. They had to move because the clientele were rude, condescending, snobby, impatient, etc. All the employees were trying to do was their jobs to the best of their abilities and that wasn't good enough. Doesn't matter who you are or how hard you try, there will inevitably be someone out there who finds fault in you or how you do things. We know this. And that's why our parents, or if we have our own kids, teach children to pay little mind to those who try to doubt them or hold them back.
Last edited by digitalUID; 02-20-2023 at 06:32 PM..
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