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As one of the posters pointed out, it's WOMEN who dismiss the struggles of unattractive women the most. That's because women are competitive to get the best men. The attractive ones can be really smug. Why should they care about a few unattractive women who are lowest on the totem pole? It doesn't affect them one iota. They are too busy juggling multiple admirers, they don't see the unattractive women on the sidelines trying desperately to fix their acne or weight or get better hairstyles or makeup or clothes to try to look more attractive. So sad.
Lately I've noticed how big breasted women tend to flaunt and display their assets and smugly enjoy how men drool over them whereas smaller built women are overlooked. It's so unfair. This creates a huge disparity between women that really affects another woman's ability to find a relationship. Men don't have to deal with this type of physical disparity to find someone.
I've been slaughtered for this on another forum many years ago: extremely attractive women have the very same problem. Too many people think that just because someone is gorgeous they don't - or shouldn't - have any problems at all. That's simply not accurate or realistic. When I was in high school, there was a girl who was the object of every guy's drool and every girl's envy. Then I heard her say that she doesn't get a date. That's right, doesn't get a date. That's because guys were too chicken to ask her out. Imagine that. A beautiful girl with problems. She moved a thousand miles away, gained a bunch of weight, has a big family and has never come to even h.s. one reunion. Different identity now. I'd love to have a chat with her.
One time a guy friend of mine told me that he prefers small breasts. Not all men prefer large breasts, and not all men are "breast men" some of them are leg men, or ass men.
If people weren't so judgmental, those who are unattractive and those who are attractive wouldn't have any issues in that regard.
Last edited by pathrunner; 09-01-2023 at 09:33 AM..
Yeah it’s insane. Social media is bombarded with anti short posts/memes
It’s like beyond even just not having attraction to short men there seems to be a disdain for short men by a lot of women
It’s bizzare
CREATING a pool of dangerously-bitter short men, who would, out of bitterness (and with a bit of coaching via behaviorial cues) seek to destroy tall men, could work to further the goals of at least one entity I can think of. Who wants to eliminate the tall people? Who bitterly resents, not just height, but also certain other physical and cognitive characteristics of tall people? Figure that out, and you'll know who's behind those seemingly-senseless memes.
That same entity has been working to create backlash against people whose gender and sexual expression does not fall within the narrow range that that entity considers acceptable, by creating the current "Woke" mess (including the current Trans brouhaha, which seemingly came out of nowhere).
But this thread is about the struggles of unattractive women. And the more I think about it, the more I want to focus on what OP, in the Original Post, did NOTmention.
I'm really surprised that OP was lamenting her lack of attractiveness to men, rather than describing how hard it is for an ugly woman to simply get through life.
I did not worry about whether or not I'd ever go out on a date. I did not worry about whether or not I would ever "be kissed"....or marry. Such possibilities never even crossed my mind. Of course I would not.
Would I be able to get a job? Would I have to walk, for the rest of my life, in the weeds beside the road (with people yelling things from cars, and throwing bottles at my head)? Or would I be able to live in a town and ride on buses? Would I be able to afford an apartment of my own? Or would I have to live in some sort of dormitory for poor people? Would people in that place beat-me-up? Would I lose my job, when I showed up covered in bruises?
When you're really, really ugly, those are your concerns. When you're really, really ugly, people treat you like dirt.
It did not even occur to me, to worry about being accepted or loved. (If someone had brought up those issues, in reference to me, I would have looked at them like they were crazy) All I wanted, was to be able to work, and to be left alone (as in not being taunted, baited, called names, and physically attacked, anymore).
I never thought about owning a Porsche, until the moment the ac went out on my final Volvo, and I found myself buying a Cayenne. I never dreamed of owning a Rolls Royce, until DH handed me the keys to a new Ghost. I'd STUDIED Rolls ownership, and decided it was foolish. But I'd been thinking in terms of used ones - not about new ones - not about replacing them before it was time to change the tires. Who WOULD think in those terms? WHY would anyone think that way? ...except, suddenly, it's happening, and suddenly, it's your new reality.
And that's how it's been, where sex and relationships and acceptance are concerned. Until they happened, I'd never thought about them. And so I have to wonder why OP thinks about those things. Do others put such ideas into her head? If so, how cruel!
I've been slaughtered for this on another forum many years ago: extremely attractive women have the very same problem. Too many people think that just because someone is gorgeous they don't - or shouldn't - have any problems at all. That's simply not accurate or realistic. When I was in high school, there was a girl who was the object of every guy's drool and every girl's envy. Then I heard her say that she doesn't get a date. That's right, doesn't get a date. That's because guys were too chicken to ask her out. Imagine that. A beautiful girl with problems. She moved a thousand miles away, gained a bunch of weight, has a big family and has never come to even h.s. one reunion. Different identity now. I'd love to have a chat with her.
One time a guy friend of mine told me that he prefers small breasts. Not all men prefer large breasts, and not all men are "breast men" some of them are leg men, or ass men.
If people weren't so judgmental, those who are unattractive and those who are attractive wouldn't have any issues in that regard.
Yep, I was guilty of that. I was a very unattractive girl, the kind that was made fun of every day in school. Glasses, braces, very bad skin, the wrong kind of hair, and just to add insult to injury, I hit six feet tall when I was 14. Skinny with no chest but a huge butt. I was never going to get a date in high school, and I knew it early on. I seriously considered suicide, but I was brought up in a religious home and was too chicken to do it. Just wandered through my teenage years terribly sad and depressed.
I did eventually marry (badly, but hey) and had a daughter, and through some bizarre mix of genetics, my daughter is beautiful. Never went through any awkward stage, people looked twice at her as a child, she always had boyfriends, grew to only 5'8" so she was still within normal range, started going steady with one of the best-looking boys in school at 14 and the relationship lasted until they were 20 (when she broke up with him because he was apparently a weird control freak).
So, I made the mistake of thinking she was OK, that she didn't have her own insecurities or problems, because from my point of view, she had it all. But she didn't. She had her own problems, some of which were genetic "gifts" from both my ex and me, and I came to realize with some shame that I had assumed she had it made and would sail through life unscathed because of her looks.
She's now 32, I am 65, and we both have come to terms with who we are, and we have a great relationship. But I regret not paying attention to some of her concerns when she was a teenager because I did have the perspective that everything would work out for her without any effort because of the way she looked.
Thanks for sharing all that MQ. I don't think those wounds ever go away completely, even when growing out of it. When I was in high school, a line skirts and tuck=in shirts were the fashion. I had a ski slope butt so no way was I going to wear a shirt tucked in. The memory isn't even there what I actually wore, guess it was too traumatic. Another thing is that I had terrible acne, in the age where there was little anyone could do. No knowledge of vitamins, hormones, no pharma. It all cleared up by age 20 or so and people couldn't believe it when they saw me. There are no scars, at least not outwardly. Another thing, I had a flat chest. Fast forward many years, I had two children and suddenly I had a great figure. Go figure! (pun intended). Until I was about 55 I made a supreme effort to look good in public. But in my 40's people - especially women - would stare at me. Insecure me would immediately think "What's wrong?" "What are they seeing?" "What do I need to correct?" I couldn't fathom that they were envious or that they thought I was pretty. A guy friend at work finally told me "they're seeing your Light." and then it started to make sense. I can't imagine what a real 10 goes through if they are a kind person (some of them are narcissists).
One time years ago I was at the dog beach in Long Beach. This foursome (2 couples) arrived. They were the most gorgeous human specimens I'd ever seen in one place at one time, and they were all together. Perfect bodies, perfect hair, perfect skin, the males as well as females. People were gawking at them because they were so out of the ordinary. Can you imagine what these people must experience with people gawking at them on a daily basis? No thanks, I'd rather be slightly above average, and a little better than that with extra effort (special occasions).
I read an article a while back that stated people's first impression of someone is best when they care a little bit about makeup. When they wear none, no dice. When they wear too much, no dice. It's that little bit of effort that goes a long way toward making a good impression. (If someone doesn't want to wear makeup, that's their prerogative.)
The bottom line is that if we groom ourselves well, present well and have a pleasing personality, it goes a long way toward being appealing to others - no matter what we start out looking like. And that's all we can do.
PS Here's another thing, when beauty fades it's difficult for many women. Someone I once knew said of our advancing age "We're like roses past the bloom. We had our time, and now it's the younger ones' time."
PPS MQ my adult children are better looking than either of their parents, and we're not that bad, but they are more attractive.
Thanks for sharing all that MQ. I don't think those wounds ever go away completely, even when growing out of it. When I was in high school, a line skirts and tuck=in shirts were the fashion. I had a ski slope butt so no way was I going to wear a shirt tucked in. The memory isn't even there what I actually wore, guess it was too traumatic. Another thing is that I had terrible acne, in the age where there was little anyone could do. No knowledge of vitamins, hormones, no pharma. It all cleared up by age 20 or so and people couldn't believe it when they saw me. There are no scars, at least not outwardly. Another thing, I had a flat chest. Fast forward many years, I had two children and suddenly I had a great figure. Go figure! (pun intended). Until I was about 55 I made a supreme effort to look good in public. But in my 40's people - especially women - would stare at me. Insecure me would immediately think "What's wrong?" "What are they seeing?" "What do I need to correct?" I couldn't fathom that they were envious or that they thought I was pretty. A guy friend at work finally told me "they're seeing your Light." and then it started to make sense. I can't imagine what a real 10 goes through if they are a kind person (some of them are narcissists).
One time years ago I was at the dog beach in Long Beach. This foursome (2 couples) arrived. They were the most gorgeous human specimens I'd ever seen in one place at one time, and they were all together. Perfect bodies, perfect hair, perfect skin, the males as well as females. People were gawking at them because they were so out of the ordinary. Can you imagine what these people must experience with people gawking at them on a daily basis? No thanks, I'd rather be slightly above average, and a little better than that with extra effort (special occasions).
I read an article a while back that stated people's first impression of someone is best when they care a little bit about makeup. When they wear none, no dice. When they wear too much, no dice. It's that little bit of effort that goes a long way toward making a good impression. (If someone doesn't want to wear makeup, that's their prerogative.)
The bottom line is that if we groom ourselves well, present well and have a pleasing personality, it goes a long way toward being appealing to others - no matter what we start out looking like. And that's all we can do.
PS Here's another thing, when beauty fades it's difficult for many women. Someone I once knew said of our advancing age "We're like roses past the bloom. We had our time, and now it's the younger ones' time."
PPS MQ my adult children are better looking than either of their parents, and we're not that bad, but they are more attractive.
I eventually learned to make myself presentable enough. I was not going to ever be pretty, but I did the best I could to fix my hair and wear makeup, and by my late 20s, the skin cleared up. Mostly. Nothing I could do about my overheight problem, and I realized I was always going to be stared at, so I learned to stand up straight, but I did also learn to put people in their place when hearing the mean and stupid remarks about my being too tall instead of just shrinking inside in shame. It wasn't my fault, and there was nothing I could do about it, and there should be no reason for grown-ass people to jeer and make unkind remarks about someone's height, tall or short.
Interestingly, things have evened themselves out. I look OK now for my age. That oily skin has staved off the lines, and mine are not as pronounced as that of other women in my age group. Being tall also meant that I am inherently stronger in the bones than many other women, and I haven't shrunk down and don't look frail or weak, and neither did my also-tall mother even in her last years. Not having boobs worked out, too, because my big-boobed friends who got all the attention, wanted or not, for having ample breasts are complaining of shoulder pain, and one even had breast reduction surgery, she was so uncomfortable.
Cutesy-ness doesn't always age well, so it seems that in some ways it may now be more difficult for those who got by on their looks in youth and have lost it in menopause.
And you got the most amazing partner, to me... who saw your beauty inside and out. I'm not liking these stories about late true love... makes me want to care even less. But, as the saying goes "better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all."
Your last point is so true. Look at what Britney Spears is doing now. She likely has Borderline in addition to Bipolar. She was made to show off her looks and body and now that's all the worth she seems to have in herself. Mental illness is difficult enough to deal with, without having to always be "on" all the time and then not being able to let go of that.
Oh another thing MQ when I was in high school I met a young girl who was a model. she had the portfolio and everything. Now, this girl was plain, plain, plain and kind of tall but not overly so. Those talent agents know things because her photos were gorgeous. I once met a guy at the dog beach. His daughter was a high fashion model who lived with a bunch of young women in NYC (protected) and traveled to Europe for various shoots. I saw some of her photos. Stunning. A few months later she was home and staying with her parents. She came to the beach with her dad one morning. She was attractive but nothing like the photos I'd seen.
Your point about blooming later in life makes a lot of sense, and to me much preferred than the reverse.
Being rejected by one woman really isn't a big deal, but we have created this technology (online dating) where it has never as easy to rejected by so many women in such a short period of time. That is different, it feels really personal because it is so many women and that can go on for days. Easily I can get rejected by more than a hundred women in an hour without getting any real feedback as to why. Whatever is your biggest insecurity, maybe you are going bald, maybe you are thinking you are too short, well online dating seems to strengthen it.
On most day most of the time, I like women. I am sure it's not easy to be a woman, but there were moments while doing online dating where I did have feelings of resentment toward women. If you are feeling hurt yourself, it is in those moments where you can feed justified in lashing out at others.
Was there a mgtow/redpill before tinder?
So to answer the OP's original question, why are the struggles of unattractive women dismissed? I think it is because when guys get ghosted on online dating apps, they attribute it to there biggest insecurities, that they feel they lack the power to change and then really resent women for the awful treatment they attribute to women in general. Is this conduct fair? No, but I do think this is the underlying cause of most of it. Might some women treat other women badly? Yes, but I think they are a minor player here.
Being rejected by one woman really isn't a big deal, but we have created this technology (online dating) where it has never as easy to rejected by so many women in such a short period of time. That is different, it feels really personal because it is so many women and that can go on for days. Easily I can get rejected by more than a hundred women in an hour without getting any real feedback as to why. Whatever is your biggest insecurity, maybe you are going bald, maybe you are thinking you are too short, well online dating seems to strengthen it.
On most day most of the time, I like women. I am sure it's not easy to be a woman, but there were moments while doing online dating where I did have feelings of resentment toward women. If you are feeling hurt yourself, it is in those moments where you can feed justified in lashing out at others.
Was there a mgtow/redpill before tinder?
So to answer the OP's original question, why are the struggles of unattractive women dismissed? I think it is because when guys get ghosted on online dating apps, they attribute it to there biggest insecurities, that they feel they lack the power to change and then really resent women for the awful treatment they attribute to women in general. Is this conduct fair? No, but I do think this is the underlying cause of most of it. Might some women treat other women badly? Yes, but I think they are a minor player here.
There's a simple cure for that. Stop doing it. Stop thinking finding someone to love is so easy that you can find him or her by sitting in your room and looking on your phone. It isn't, and it shouldn't be. Leave the room and make yourself into more of a person than that, become an interesting person and interested in other people, real live ones.
If you just want sex, yes, you can get that by sitting in your room and looking at your phone, but you have to pay for it.
The Tinder culture had made you think this way, but you have the choice not to.
At any rate, a lot of us telling our old tales of woe as unattractive, unwanted women predate tinder and the online dating sites that came before that. We were getting rejected for our looks just by going to school, to work, to clubs, just existing and not getting a chance because we simply were not deemed attractive enough to be approached by men.
Yep, I was guilty of that. I was a very unattractive girl, the kind that was made fun of every day in school. Glasses, braces, very bad skin, the wrong kind of hair, and just to add insult to injury, I hit six feet tall when I was 14. Skinny with no chest but a huge butt. I seriously considered suicide, but I was brought up in a religious home and was too chicken to do it. Just wandered through my teenage years terribly sad and depressed.
We might've been twins, so I can definitely empathize. In my case, trade the glasses for...a fricken back brace. I was diagnosed with scoliosis at 14, and my esteem & self worth nosedived soon after. At 16 I was shipped off to live with relatives out of state, my parents no longer wanted to deal with someone who didn't fit into their ideal family mold. You should have seen what they wrote about me in their Christmas letter to everyone that year, I inadvertently read a copy of it. At 17 I attempted suicide for the first (but not last) time. I endured teasing & insults of all kinds from boys and girls. I remember being called "Olive Oyl" in my late teens/early 20s and the only men who expressed interest in me were weirdos in their 40s/50s, only because I was young and obviously an easy target. I (and other unlucky women) am the living version of Dawn Weiner in the movie Welcome to the Dollhouse I mentioned in another post.
What a lot of all this comes down to is having self esteem and confidence to face the world. We've all seen some celebrities or powerful people who are butt ugly, obviously their appearance is of no matter to them. For me, just being loved and supported would have made a huge difference in my life. Being rejected by your own family for being "different" is a big downer that can have lasting effects. Some can overcome it, some cannot. Now, fast forward 35 years, I've just come to accept that I'm better off being a loner and I wish that term didn't have a negative connotation. I always end up getting treated like crap, so I just prefer to be alone now. Doesn't make me a bad person.
But then there is the old saying, "Don't mess with the quiet ones..."
We shall see.
Yep, I was guilty of that. I was a very unattractive girl, the kind that was made fun of every day in school. Glasses, braces, very bad skin, the wrong kind of hair, and just to add insult to injury, I hit six feet tall when I was 14. Skinny with no chest but a huge butt. I was never going to get a date in high school, and I knew it early on. I seriously considered suicide, but I was brought up in a religious home and was too chicken to do it. Just wandered through my teenage years terribly sad and depressed.
I did eventually marry (badly, but hey) and had a daughter, and through some bizarre mix of genetics, my daughter is beautiful. Never went through any awkward stage, people looked twice at her as a child, she always had boyfriends, grew to only 5'8" so she was still within normal range, started going steady with one of the best-looking boys in school at 14 and the relationship lasted until they were 20 (when she broke up with him because he was apparently a weird control freak).
So, I made the mistake of thinking she was OK, that she didn't have her own insecurities or problems, because from my point of view, she had it all. But she didn't. She had her own problems, some of which were genetic "gifts" from both my ex and me, and I came to realize with some shame that I had assumed she had it made and would sail through life unscathed because of her looks.
She's now 32, I am 65, and we both have come to terms with who we are, and we have a great relationship. But I regret not paying attention to some of her concerns when she was a teenager because I did have the perspective that everything would work out for her without any effort because of the way she looked.
MQ, I've heard from women the bolded happened to. Beautiful women say, that men are either afraid to ask them out, or the ones with the oversupply of self-esteem who do ask them out, are into "owning" them and controlling them. They say, the nice guys they'd be interested in starting a family with are too intimidated by their looks. One woman deliberately made herself mildly obese, hoping to become more approachable. One guy in a bar or club was interested in her at that point, but still couldn't bring himself to approach her. Fortunately, he was with a buddy, who was agreeable to be the wing man. Everything worked out, they married, had kids, were very happy.
I think it's sad that women need to deliberately deform themselves to become approachable by average Joes. I also think it's sad that average Joes can go years, decades, all alone because they can't bring themselves to have a conversation with the women they're interested in. And the control-trip mindset the entitled men have is also scary. And then, there are the average Janes, who struggle with invisibility, or only attract troubled souls, if anyone. It amazes me sometimes, that anyone's able to get together at all.
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I'm not liking these stories about late true love... makes me want to care even less. 
But, as the saying goes "better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all."
