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I'm not really sure why you're so hyper-focused on the idea of slapping labels on people. Nobody is calling anyone else a narcissist. As mentioned numerous times upthread, I'm describing narcissistic behaviors. In an earlier post, I essentially highlighted some of the specific behaviors. If you feel better about referring to the specific behaviors than the association with narcissism, then see below.
IME, these behaviors are far more prevalent online than IRL. Whether the person is diagnosed with NPD is not being debated here.
I’ve been dealing with someone in our family with narcissistic behaviours for 5 years and it’s been a nightmare. Whether she has npd is a whole other kettle of fish, but what I do know is that the list of behavioural traits typically associated with narcissism are clear as day. Knowing this has allowed those around her ( family) an ability to predict what she will do, to stop playing into her game, to let go. We let go after her last attempt to bait us and she went into a rage. Been two years of peace. People often use the term loosely or dismiss it, but I’m betting they have never actually dealt with someone who ihas displayed a whole series of malignant or covert narcissistic behaviours that are devastating to family relationships. We were so sad because we loved her but no amount of love, or kindness can help with someone like this.
In regards to online , I’d say social media facilitates the worst in some people and there is research that supports the increase of narcissism.
“Narcissism is increasing in modern Western societies and this has been referred to as a “narcissism epidemic” [1]. The endorsement rate for the statement “I am an important person” has increased from 12% in 1963 to 77–80% in 1992 in adolescents”. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...ents%20%5B2%5D.
Narcissism is often defined as a fixation with oneself and one’s physical appearance or public image. Many young adults could be described as narcissistic, because they’re at a stage of life when they are establishing their identity and figuring out who they are in relationship to others. But is narcissism on the rise among young people today? Could social media narcissism be creating a self-obsessed generation?
“Research shows that today’s young adults are more narcissistic than ever before. More than 10 percent of people in their 20s are believed to suffer from subclinical narcissism, according to Psychology Today. And social media is contributing to the problem.” https://www.newportinstitute.com/res...ia-narcissism/
I’ve been dealing with someone in our family with narcissistic behaviours for 5 years and it’s been a nightmare. Whether she has npd is a whole other kettle of fish, but what I do know is that the list of behavioural traits typically associated with narcissism are clear as day. Knowing this has allowed those around her ( family) an ability to predict what she will do, to stop playing into her game, to let go. We let go after her last attempt to bait us and she went into a rage. Been two years of peace. People often use the term loosely or dismiss it, but I’m betting they have never actually dealt with someone who ihas displayed a whole series of malignant or covert narcissistic behaviours that are devastating to family relationships. We were so sad because we loved her but no amount of love, or kindness can help with someone like this.
In regards to online , I’d say social media facilitates the worst in some people and there is research that supports the increase of narcissism.
“Narcissism is increasing in modern Western societies and this has been referred to as a “narcissism epidemic” [1]. The endorsement rate for the statement “I am an important person” has increased from 12% in 1963 to 77–80% in 1992 in adolescents”. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...ents%20%5B2%5D.
Narcissism is often defined as a fixation with oneself and one’s physical appearance or public image. Many young adults could be described as narcissistic, because they’re at a stage of life when they are establishing their identity and figuring out who they are in relationship to others. But is narcissism on the rise among young people today? Could social media narcissism be creating a self-obsessed generation?
“Research shows that today’s young adults are more narcissistic than ever before. More than 10 percent of people in their 20s are believed to suffer from subclinical narcissism, according to Psychology Today. And social media is contributing to the problem.” https://www.newportinstitute.com/res...ia-narcissism/
Hm. Interesting.
When reading the phrase, "I am an important person" I think that I would really like to see an accompanying piece of data where the next question was, "All human beings are important." and rates of agreement to that. We should take care to distinguish between a person having a healthy amount of self esteem and placing reasonable value upon themselves, versus the more malignant thing where they lack that respect and regard for others.
Really, the people I have known who are truly narcissistic it's not actually that they are obsessed with their own grandiosity in the way it is classically defined. Those who act as though they are, are usually in fact pretending in order to conceal the vulnerability of insecure self esteem or outright self loathing. Where it turns toxic and harmful is in how they relate to other people. The lack of empathy. The need to be the focus of everyone else's attention such that they manipulate and isolate and control others. Or the need to constantly push everyone else down in order to maintain a feeling that they are OK or better than everybody else.
But I just think that it's important to note, we are not looking at a scale here, where thinking highly of yourself is narcissistic and therefore the way to be "good" somehow is at the other end where you put yourself down. There's no virtue in treating yourself like dirt. And finding a balance between humility/empathy...and healthy self esteem...that can be hard sometimes.
I do laugh at some of the effects of social media. Who remembers Myspace? The structure of that site was so funny when you think about it. Like each page was a living monument to someone's ego. Your photos, your favorite colors and styles, and for a while there you could set it up to automatically blare your favorite song at anyone who clicked on your page! You had to rank your friends, remember the "top 8?" And eventually people stopped engaging and interacting, we'd go there and there wouldn't be any shiny little red bubble number notifications in the corner to tell us that other people were interested in us, and everybody got a hole punched in their ego balloons. And the site shriveled up and died as Facebook, with its lesser degree of focus on the self, and higher degree of focus on "engagement" and interactivity, took off. I think that Instagram might be trying to split the difference, but I can't much speak to that because I've never used it.
Funny thing though. My sons are 21 and 24, "Gen Z" boys, and one of them is utterly inactive on social media and not interested in it at all, the other uses his sparingly to share the occasional photo or update to family on what he's doing in life generally, but he can go months without posting anything. Granted, it's totally possible that they have pages of which I'm unaware as their Mom. Definitely. But at least with the older one, I kinda doubt it. The younger crowd appears to be backing away from some of the deeper engagement with a lot of the internet and just trying to take it lightly, amusing themselves with funny little memes and videos. I see a lot of them being OK with it as light entertainment but not as a whole identity thing, so I think there may be hope.
According to your stats, Christianity, Religion, and Politics are your primary forums. You don't see these behaviors on Politics at all? That's interesting.
This forum seems to be fairly obsessed with other people's posting history..
i encounter so many people online who have such a grandiose opinion of themselves, their stature, their abilities, etc. Very little self-awareness, self-deprecation, nor vulnerability exhibited. These people are all seemingly the "best at what they do", held in the highest regard amongst all their peers, have never made any mistakes in life, elite in most facets of life, no regrets.
I have so many honest conversations with people in real life about their vulnerabilities, mistakes, desires to improve, but online it seems like many people are playing a character or maintaining a facade.
What is it about online that makes people behave in this manner? Wouldn't you think the veil of anonymity would allow them to be more open, honest, and vulnerable?
When reading the phrase, "I am an important person" I think that I would really like to see an accompanying piece of data where the next question was, "All human beings are important." and rates of agreement to that. We should take care to distinguish between a person having a healthy amount of self esteem and placing reasonable value upon themselves, versus the more malignant thing where they lack that respect and regard for others.
Really, the people I have known who are truly narcissistic it's not actually that they are obsessed with their own grandiosity in the way it is classically defined. Those who act as though they are, are usually in fact pretending in order to conceal the vulnerability of insecure self esteem or outright self loathing. Where it turns toxic and harmful is in how they relate to other people. The lack of empathy. The need to be the focus of everyone else's attention such that they manipulate and isolate and control others. Or the need to constantly push everyone else down in order to maintain a feeling that they are OK or better than everybody else.
But I just think that it's important to note, we are not looking at a scale here, where thinking highly of yourself is narcissistic and therefore the way to be "good" somehow is at the other end where you put yourself down. There's no virtue in treating yourself like dirt. And finding a balance between humility/empathy...and healthy self esteem...that can be hard sometimes.
I do laugh at some of the effects of social media. Who remembers Myspace? The structure of that site was so funny when you think about it. Like each page was a living monument to someone's ego. Your photos, your favorite colors and styles, and for a while there you could set it up to automatically blare your favorite song at anyone who clicked on your page! You had to rank your friends, remember the "top 8?" And eventually people stopped engaging and interacting, we'd go there and there wouldn't be any shiny little red bubble number notifications in the corner to tell us that other people were interested in us, and everybody got a hole punched in their ego balloons. And the site shriveled up and died as Facebook, with its lesser degree of focus on the self, and higher degree of focus on "engagement" and interactivity, took off. I think that Instagram might be trying to split the difference, but I can't much speak to that because I've never used it.
Funny thing though. My sons are 21 and 24, "Gen Z" boys, and one of them is utterly inactive on social media and not interested in it at all, the other uses his sparingly to share the occasional photo or update to family on what he's doing in life generally, but he can go months without posting anything. Granted, it's totally possible that they have pages of which I'm unaware as their Mom. Definitely. But at least with the older one, I kinda doubt it. The younger crowd appears to be backing away from some of the deeper engagement with a lot of the internet and just trying to take it lightly, amusing themselves with funny little memes and videos. I see a lot of them being OK with it as light entertainment but not as a whole identity thing, so I think there may be hope.
You bring up some great points. I totally agree about gen z , and the ones I do see are very active in political change. I really love so many things about gen z.
I once asked a lady in her 80s what she thought of how narcissistic people have become. She said most people have always thought a lot of themselves as far as she knew.
It might not be new so much as the internet makes us more aware of it. There are a lot of attitudes and beliefs that were assumed to be universal or minimal, but the internet has made us more aware these things are less/more prevalent than we had thought.
I once asked a lady in her 80s what she thought of how narcissistic people have become. She said most people have always thought a lot of themselves as far as she knew.
It might not be new so much as the internet makes us more aware of it. There are a lot of attitudes and beliefs that were assumed to be universal or minimal, but the internet has made us more aware these things are less/more prevalent than we had thought.
I don’t remember it being acceptable or enabled or encouraged though in a way it is now. Maybe in the USA it was different but back in the uk on the housing estate back in the day people being narcissistic / full of themselves were called out or frowned upon.
I don’t remember it being acceptable or enabled or encouraged though in a way it is now. Maybe in the USA it was different but back in the uk on the housing estate back in the day people being narcissistic / full of themselves were called out or frowned upon.
I think that's universal. Even now, a lot of people might laugh or roll their eyes if someone is obviously narcissistic. Some people think a lot of themselves without making it obvious to others in person. Maybe they're are outing themselves online. It's like the old saying: keep quiet and appear wise, open your mouth and let the world know you're a fool.
I encounter so many people online who have such a grandiose opinion of themselves, their stature, their abilities, etc. Very little self-awareness, self-deprecation, nor vulnerability exhibited. These people are all seemingly the "best at what they do", held in the highest regard amongst all their peers, have never made any mistakes in life, elite in most facets of life, no regrets.
I have so many honest conversations with people in real life about their vulnerabilities, mistakes, desires to improve, but online it seems like many people are playing a character or maintaining a facade.
What is it about online that makes people behave in this manner? Wouldn't you think the veil of anonymity would allow them to be more open, honest, and vulnerable?
constructive criticism stings and it boosts their ego to air brush out all the imperfections
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It's like the old saying: keep quiet and appear wise, open your mouth and let the world know you're a fool.
