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Old 11-05-2023, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,840 posts, read 30,082,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
People generally (naturally) speak the way they learned to speak when they were young. Adopting other accents or affectations indicates to me an unhealthy conformity, need to fit in and be accepted by others, dependence on others' approval, and "hive mind." We moved from the north to the south when I was younger, and my pre-teen sibling almost immediately adopted a southern accent (he's since dropped it, and I still haven't acquired one), but then 13 is the age when one would want and need to integrate into one's new peer group. People should outgrow that tendency by adulthood, but some never do.
upspeak is quit different from a cultural learning from the time we were born....example, girls I knew who engaged in it, that didn't use it when we met, oh, maybe 24 years before that....it isn't about an accent, and when you hear it, you'll immediately know...it's a trend or a fad....that has been adopted by young girls....just like when they say, Noooaaaahhhhh, for no...they tac an a onto their words, especailly when they use the word no....it's trendy, and equal to, people who use the word "like" every other word....
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Old 11-05-2023, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
48,287 posts, read 34,411,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
upspeak is quit different from a cultural learning from the time we were born....example, girls I knew who engaged in it, that didn't use it when we met, oh, maybe 24 years before that....it isn't about an accent, and when you hear it, you'll immediately know...it's a trend or a fad....that has been adopted by young girls....just like when they say, Noooaaaahhhhh, for no...they tac an a onto their words, especailly when they use the word no....it's trendy, and equal to, people who use the word "like" every other word....
I think "nooooahhhhh" is popular from Schitt's Creek.
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Old 11-05-2023, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Southern MN
11,912 posts, read 8,234,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I'm noticing another thing that I find annoying. Using the whole concept of "psychology" to pathologize anyone who annoys you or does anything you don't care for.
Thanks for the reminder. The loose definition of psychology is the scientific study of the mind and behavior of people and animals. What makes us who we are and how we interact with our environment.

Abnormal psychology is a subset of that study.
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Old 11-05-2023, 11:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I'm noticing another thing that I find annoying. Using the whole concept of "psychology" to pathologize anyone who annoys you or does anything you don't care for. Gimme a break, I know some actually mentally ill people, we do NOT need to go around pointing at every person's little harmless quirks and declaring them "unhealthy." What the hell is the psychology of THAT? Seems kinda "unhealthy" to me? Sheesh. Round and round.

Yeah, some stuff annoys me. But there are all sorts of reasons people have whatever inflections, affectations, dialects, mannerisms, and chosen words and phrases in their speech. But "annoying" is not a diagnostic term. Nor is "annoyed." It's all a bit interesting to note and think about, but let's not get carried away.

Not every conversation about human psychology has to end in identifying the "mentally unwell" so we can smugly feel that we are OK and those other people aren't. I won't even get into the thing of a certain bunch of Americans negatively judging the cultural speech patterns of certain other groups, because hoo boy is THAT a can of worms. If people are managing to communicate their ideas effectively, and they are not harming themselves, you, or anybody...

But since I've got up close experience with a schizophrenic person who was in the middle of his worst breakdowns, delusions and behaviors... I can tell you that the speech of the "unwell" goes way, WAY beyond "annoying" and into tormented, disorganized, hard to follow. Sometimes flat, sometimes frenzied. It is not "annoying" but rather heartbreaking, frightening and upsetting. If you have not experienced it, that is your good fortune.

I dunno I just feel like calling an annoying mannerism a sign of a mental health problem is like calling a critical remark "actual violence" or a smile and eye contact, "assault." No. Just. No.
As both a language nerd and someone with background chops in psychology, I'm going to suggest that while your post is well-intentioned, you have veered off on a side tangent and are vehemently engaging in a straw man fallacy "acceptance of everyone" argument. Aside from the fact that "acceptance of everyone" is another classic fallacy, it is entertaining, but off-topic.

Language is probably the most powerful weapon in the arsenal of humankind. It has killed more people than any bomb, past or future. "The pen is mightier than the sword" is more than a casual aphorism.

What may seem to you as harmless quirks or annoyances are often (not always, but often) signs of other things going on. Cadence and entrainment can be signs of cult activity or formation. Acceptance within groups is often predicated upon "talking the talk."

https://www.gangenforcement.com/gang-terminology.html

https://www.christiantoday.com/artic...yers/97770.htm

The entire P& O.C. forum is rife with catchphrases and speech patterns that are exclusionary and bordering (as much as mods can hold it back) on hate speech.

Affectations are to be taken seriously. Remember "dittoheads?" Remember "peacenicks?" The person using them has donned them as a cloak for some reason. They may simply think it fashionable, they may want acceptance within a certain group, they may be attempting to gather a following. It isn't to be shrugged off with a "whatever." The use of advanced language techniques in political and religious rhetoric has deluded billions of people over the years.

Pushing back against some affectations is an important social dynamic. If the layperson characterizes some of the worst of it as more than annoying, there may be some truth to that assessment. That you are annoyed with that, as you state in your lead sentence, is your own personal issue.

The subject of the thread is affectations of speech, not language history or speech impediments or language evolution.
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Old 11-05-2023, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,840 posts, read 30,082,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
I think "nooooahhhhh" is popular from Schitt's Creek.
I meant Noooaaahhhhhaaa, sorry, they put an a on the end...never watched Schitts Creek?
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Old 11-05-2023, 11:49 AM
 
21,653 posts, read 9,221,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I think that just as emo came along as goth's annoying younger sibling...upspeak evolved out of what we used to call "Valley Girl" talk back in the 90s. The preppie cheerleader types used to drive us all crazy with their "like ohmagoddd, my scrunchiee!" I was one of the ones who mocked them then, and yeah I find the evolution of it annoying now, too.

But imagine, if you will...

My practical, occasionally snarky, 40-something Gen-X self sitting in a big company meeting to watch a presentation by the new VP of Sales who is from the California office. She is young and she's standing up there and not only does she do the upspeak, she is saying a lot of words that mean absolutely nothing. Just spewing corporate jargon to impress the bosses, like she has no idea what she's talking about but she's got to convince everyone that it's Very Professional and Important. Very Boss. Much words. Wow.

"So like, we're going to leveraagge...? The synergyyyy...? Of the culturrrre...?"

In my mind, what this does is it sends the message to all of the employees of a company that if you want to be successful here, shmooze and BS matters more than substance, expertise and work. You don't have to know what you're even talking about, so long as you use the right buzz words when you say it. Fortunately, my location has better management with good practical heads on their shoulders, but I can't speak for the folks in the CA office.

Anyhow, whenever anybody complains about either upspeak or corporate jargon, I recall the interminable meeting where I had to listen to both at the same time.
Ugh. I feel for you. She might have a future in politics though. Seems to be useful in that world.
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Old 11-05-2023, 11:51 AM
 
21,653 posts, read 9,221,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaOfGrass View Post
Lucky you! Seems like I hear it everywhere now, even from people I otherwise respect.
My pet peeve is 'like' as the filler word. It's awful. I contend they are not teaching children proper English anymore...for a reason.
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Old 11-05-2023, 11:53 AM
 
21,653 posts, read 9,221,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavymind View Post
I'm Gen-X and still guilty of using "like" too much. I think it makes me sound dumb, but it's permanently ingrained into my vocabulary. No upspeak, though. I remember hearing that in Australia 20 years ago before it became widespread in the US.

Another annoyance is interjecting "so" and "right" in every other sentence. It's useless filler. I've been noticing standup comedians using it a lot in their bits. "So, I went upstairs to open the door, right? And the moment the door opened I realized I had made a huge mistake. Almost colossally huge, right? The next thing I know I'm standing outside in my underwear, right?........"

I suppose it's better than "know what I mean". I had a boss once who said that after every sentence. I counted once during a meeting and told him he'd said it over 30 times. LOL
I have a friend who does the know what I mean thing. I think it makes them sound kind of stupid.
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Old 11-05-2023, 12:02 PM
 
21,653 posts, read 9,221,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Oh that is hilarious.

I can't really say if it would be funnier to eventually tell him, or not to.

There are also some words that my ex husband habitually used that I try soooo hard to make sure do not creep into my speech because they always irritated me.

Irregardless<-- And he says the word, "interesting" without pronouncing the 't'... "INNER-esting." Where I grew up saying it, "INT-risting." I don't care which is more or less correct, hearing it said his way annoyed me for some reason. My sons say that the phrase, "it is what it is" makes them want to go on violent rampages because their father said it so much.

What gets to me is when I come up with a quirkier little expression and I believe it to be my own invention, and then later I find it somewhere else...and I am left wondering - Did I pick it up someplace without realizing it? Do I and others just have similar enough thought patterns that we independently came up with the phrase with no particular connection? Did they somehow get the phrase either directly from me or from someone who did? Have I ever had an original thought??? WHO, EVEN, AM I? lol no not really, but it's just weird.
My sister and law uses a LOT of these phrases including "It is what it is'. What does that even mean? Lots of 'at the end of the days', too.
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Old 11-05-2023, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,840 posts, read 30,082,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
Ugh. I feel for you. She might have a future in politics though. Seems to be useful in that world.
when I left the corporate field, and believe me, it was a blessing, so many young people had an "I'm better then you attitude", and talked endlessly about nothing in meetings as Sonic said...they're mostly fresh out of college and believe they are better then anyone else, knowing more then others, because they have a degree, which soon becomes a rude awakening. (and I'm not the only one who felt that way) Many people left early because of that....they were unable to explore the meaning behind words, if those words didn't align with their beliefs...it was like hitting your head against the wall, you were trying to have a conversation, to share, to learn, and it was impossible, as it was taken as an insult, challenge or character flaw.

Now I know my generation was probably the same, but in a much more humble way...the Corporate Field is not for sissy's....they will run right over their own mother, to get to the top. Oh yes, there are decent people working amongst them only trying to make a living and paying off their college debt....however, the majority of them will have to learn a lot, just like we did....life doesn't give you an in, on your choice of trends or college degrees, but more so, on kindness, humbleness and sitting back and learning, by just observing and for that you don't get a trophy. The corporate world, actually rewards bad behavior, by giving out awards that are not earned, but by popularity, or if your working with a team that does all the work while you sit back and do nothing....it's disgusting. Anyway, working in the corportate field is not for sissy's....you watch, you learn and you choose your battles wisely....if at all...and play the game.
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