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Old 04-09-2024, 12:58 PM
 
Location: So Cal
52,306 posts, read 52,748,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
I'm not sure it's within the realm of human possibility to have peace of mind at all times under any circumstances. Maybe it's not even good for us to not be disturbed ever.

Gotta have that catalyst sometimes.
You'd have to be a psycho to have peace of mind all of the time. Life has ups and downs and it's natural to have highs and lows. My thoughts were just in general of having a basic operating peace of mind in the larger sense. There are always things in life that get thrown your way that aren't pleasant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
I'm very envious of the opium addicts, those that take opium every day as I gave up opium decades ago. I miss it, but there's no turning back.

Religion is the opium of the masses/Karl Marx
One could say that large, centralized government control was opium to Marx and his ilk.
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Old 04-13-2024, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Germany
722 posts, read 430,000 times
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Heyyy, I'm not sure I exactly understood what you are envious of? You wrote "their peace of mind" but that is really something that depends on the character and current situation of the person.
Do you perhaps perceive believers as being more able to hope in something "good" regardless of the pain that exists in this world?
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Old 04-14-2024, 07:46 PM
 
Location: So Cal
52,306 posts, read 52,748,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohangr View Post
Heyyy, I'm not sure I exactly understood what you are envious of? You wrote "their peace of mind" but that is really something that depends on the character and current situation of the person.
Do you perhaps perceive believers as being more able to hope in something "good" regardless of the pain that exists in this world?
To me the true believers remind me of someone that has an awesome home insurance plan that covers everything with a tiny deductible.

That going to bed with confidence and knowing you are covered with peace of mind is sort of what I've been trying to say. Like when the chips are down you've got someone covering your back.

I picture the true believers feeling that and that is what I suppose is what I'm envious of.

The knowingness of peace, serenity, and security.
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Old 04-14-2024, 09:58 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,698 posts, read 3,883,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
To me the true believers remind me of someone that has an awesome home insurance plan that covers everything with a tiny deductible.

That going to bed with confidence and knowing you are covered with peace of mind is sort of what I've been trying to say. Like when the chips are down you've got someone covering your back.

I picture the true believers feeling that and that is what I suppose is what I'm envious of.
Relative to this (psychology) forum, don’t you have a romantic partner and/or friends and family that would ‘have your back’, if necessary?
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Old 04-14-2024, 10:08 PM
 
Location: So Cal
52,306 posts, read 52,748,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Relative to this (psychology) forum, don’t you have a romantic partner and/or friends and family that would ‘have your back’, if necessary?
Your take here couldn't be further from reality. Your post seem to have a passive aggressive sort of vibe.
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Old 04-14-2024, 10:33 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,698 posts, read 3,883,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
Your take here couldn't be further from reality. Your post seem to have a passive aggressive sort of vibe.
To the contrary, it’s a sincere question (which you didn’t answer). Why would you be envious of believers because they have ‘someone who has their back’ if you had a romantic partner and/or friends and family to have yours? Relative to a psychology thread, isn’t that what we all need in order to be emotionally healthy i.e. a connection to others.
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Old 04-17-2024, 07:49 AM
 
Location: South of Heaven
7,939 posts, read 3,481,892 times
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A random universe and therefore life devoid of all meaning save what one can conjure up on their own doesn't make sense to me, so neither does atheism. Religion however is the word of man. Maybe divinely inspired men, but men nonetheless and therefore weighed down with biases, cultural perceptions and agendas. It's normal to question religion but atheism is only step one in that questioning process I think. It's the part where one conflates religion with spiritualism in general and therefore if a specific religion is implausible then atheism would seem the next plausible choice. Keep taking more steps down that path and you can see where a religion and spirituality or greater meaning start to diverge and you can form your own path to understanding or at least widening your awareness.
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Old 04-17-2024, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,406 posts, read 14,689,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
To me the true believers remind me of someone that has an awesome home insurance plan that covers everything with a tiny deductible.

That going to bed with confidence and knowing you are covered with peace of mind is sort of what I've been trying to say. Like when the chips are down you've got someone covering your back.

I picture the true believers feeling that and that is what I suppose is what I'm envious of.

The knowingness of peace, serenity, and security.
I think I get what you're saying. It's being able to believe that things happen for reasons and that it will all work out. Not only that there is some spiritual consciousness to the greater universe, but that it vaguely wishes you well and won't hit you with more hardship than you can handle. And of course the comfort of the idea that any miscarriages of justice we see in the world around us will be squared up in the afterlife. And that our prayers count for something when we desperately want to help others but can't see a more concrete path to doing so.

But I can't envy the believers, not really. At least not those who participate in the big organized religions. I've just seen way too many examples where the more zealous and committed a person is, the more they are willing to do harm to others in the name of their beliefs, or follow leaders who want to use them to maintain their power and push their agendas. There's just too much ugliness to organized religion, going back through its entire history, for me. Not that I am targeting religion alone for this sentiment...leaders of other institutional constructs...nations/governments, large companies and economic systems, militaries, and so on... I see too many situations where people allow themselves to be led into really bad things, so I am wary of these kinds of hierarchical systems.

I have comfort in just...the nature of things and confidence in my own capabilities. I believe that life will go on, and that if it does not then I won't care if I'm dead. I'll just keep doing the best I can with what I've got, and that's all I can do. In the greater scheme of the cosmos, the stars and planets will continue their dance even if we blow the Earth to smithereens. I mean, it would be a shame, but even if I don't believe in a set religion or a personified "God"...there's always something bigger than us. We're pretty small in the grand scheme of what we know. Not believing in a heaven isn't much of a problem because I also don't believe in a hell. And it helps me moderate my ego to know that my construct of "Self" is only temporary at best.
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Old 04-17-2024, 02:24 PM
 
Location: So Cal
52,306 posts, read 52,748,112 times
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In terms of actual organized religion I'm not real interested in that part of the equation. I chose my words carefully to say true believers, I didn't attach that to a specific brand or team. Could be Jesus or just God, but in terms of showing up participating in a church per se is not something I'm interested in.

I chose the pyschlogy forum instead of religion for the specifc reason of the state of mind as it relates to feelings of content and all of the stuff I listed, with true believers being kind of the vehicle to the mindset. Not sure if I'm explaining that well.

I do appreciate some of the responses here. Sometimes my writing skills don't always convey what I'm thinking. Kind of odd since I have a job that requires a lot of report writing, but I suppose since I'm writing about concrete things and not things that are more abstract, I may come off better in that area.

Last edited by Chowhound; 04-17-2024 at 02:35 PM..
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Old 04-17-2024, 09:01 PM
 
2,980 posts, read 1,653,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Waltz View Post
A random universe and therefore life devoid of all meaning save what one can conjure up on their own doesn't make sense to me, so neither does atheism. Religion however is the word of man. Maybe divinely inspired men, but men nonetheless and therefore weighed down with biases, cultural perceptions and agendas. It's normal to question religion but atheism is only step one in that questioning process I think. It's the part where one conflates religion with spiritualism in general and therefore if a specific religion is implausible then atheism would seem the next plausible choice. Keep taking more steps down that path and you can see where a religion and spirituality or greater meaning start to diverge and you can form your own path to understanding or at least widening your awareness.
Amen to the bolded, Tox! Questioning is part of the human experience, it's us. We want to why.

I'm my view, yes, the questioning process will be answered when our energy returns to the universe from where it came. Returns to what the greatest thinkers have referred to as God.

As Einstein said, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, just changed in form. I think that's what happens when when we die. Our energy leaves our earthly form, what happens after, I have no idea.

To believe, we have to know what we believe in. I guess some people can develop their own personal belief system but most people need guidance or input from others who have devoted their lives to seeking understanding.

I've observed that as thoughtful people mature, their thinking becomes more mature. Acknowledging a Creator is part of that maturing process. Intelligent observation of the natural world alone would seem to spark that awareness.

Possibly this might be what is happening with you, Chowhound.

Possibly you might want to explore different faith traditions in an intellectual setting, like a Comparative Religion continuing education course at a university near you.

Cheers

R&P
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