Chinese Drywall the Ancient Chinese Secret (Williamsburg, Hampton: foreclosure, to rent, buying a house)

[Old Gal]

This really is a big mess. How would you handle bank owned properties/foreclosures/short sales in this scenario? I know just snooping around and getting ideas I've run across a few short sales that were interesting. Is it best to just stay away from these properties?

[Restrain]

You can smell Chinese drywall. Has an acedic smell. Generally used in early 2000s, and an inspector can easily detect this. If you find a home that you want, write the contract and specify in the inspection process (10 day inspection period) that you want an inspection for Chinese drywall.

[SJNE17]

Big House, you know any good RE litigators in Atlanta? If so, pls. shoot me a message. Good friend of ours just bought a house that turned out to be a nightmare. It's chinese drywall x 100. Everything concealed--mold, rot, etc. Everyone from inspector to listing agent to seller likely in cahoots.

The dollar amount of house plus remediation costs are prob high 6 figures.

Originally Posted by Big House

Yes. They can. It's a business transaction. And if they know about it they would be wise to avoid being involved in any way with any potential legal tangle.

Also, something to consider is the fact that the sulfite out gassing that ocurs is very corrosive. It attacks everything that is metal including all fasteners that hold the roof and wall framing together as well as other components not re mediated when the drywall was exchanged. That latent damage continues and will cause other forms of premature failures down the road, if not rectified.

If for any reason health issues ever arise the lawyers will love arguing about this property and how someone tried to profit from its sale (at any point down the line - who should also have known) by not doing a complete job of remediation, and passing it greedily along. Who wants to be apart of that - raise your hands.

[Big House]

Originally Posted by SJNE17

Big House, you know any good RE litigators in Atlanta? If so, pls. shoot me a message. Good friend of ours just bought a house that turned out to be a nightmare. It's chinese drywall x 100. Everything concealed--mold, rot, etc. Everyone from inspector to listing agent to seller likely in cahoots.

The dollar amount of house plus remediation costs are prob high 6 figures.

My attorney contacts are all in the MD / VA area. They are licensed by the different states. I can't give you a good recommendation for Atlanta, but it's a good idea to speak to people that deal with this type of litigation. The insurance companies are the ones that will ultimately fund this litigation. And the fees generated will cover much of the legal councils (and their consultants) overhead for a long time. Those costs will probably exceed all the remediation costs that should have been done in the first place. I was an expert witness on a number of claims and was shocked at how the process works. This is a true money pit, and the way it's approached - everyone is stuck to the tar baby! It's a real mess!

[Big House]

Originally Posted by Restrain

You can smell Chinese drywall. Has an acedic smell. Generally used in early 2000s, and an inspector can easily detect this. If you find a home that you want, write the contract and specify in the inspection process (10 day inspection period) that you want an inspection for Chinese drywall.

If widely used in a home you can easily detect it. That's true, but sometimes just a bathroom, kitchen upgrade, or other alteration could be done, and one may not detect it by smell alone. That said, there are thousands and thousands of homes that never had CDW. Homes built or renovated between 2002-2007 should be carefully examined. Usually it is easy to identify. SoFLGal's 99.999% of the time they are kept out of the loop on things like this. Who would tell them, if they are stuck trying to dump a property with CWD knowing if they tell their agent that that agent is required by law to share that information with all parties. What agent would want to take on their exposure in a future law suit for a couple hundred bucks in commission? None I've ever talked to would consider that. So for those that want to blame any agent for their participation in a bad transaction - it's very unlikely. They are more likely a victim of events.

[Old Gal]

BH, are the homeowners in Florida not required by law to disclose this if they are aware of it?

[SoFLGal]

Originally Posted by Old Gal

This really is a big mess. How would you handle bank owned properties/foreclosures/short sales in this scenario? I know just snooping around and getting ideas I've run across a few short sales that were interesting. Is it best to just stay away from these properties?

The banks do not know the property history on the home therefore you will not get a sellers disclosure like a "regular" transaction. The contract will also be written on an "as-is" contract if it's bank owned. As far as short sales go, they are usually still occupied and owned by the owners of the property so in many cases you would get a sellers disclosure.

I wouldn't advise to stay away from short sales or foreclosures. It is a mess but it can be fairly easy to navigate with the right people in place.

[SoFLGal]

Originally Posted by Old Gal

BH, are the homeowners in Florida not required by law to disclose this if they are aware of it?

Yes. In Johnson vs. Davis, the Florida Supreme Court held that “where the seller of a home knows of facts materially affecting the value of the property which are not readily observable and are not known to the buyer, the seller is under a duty to disclose them to the buyer.” The disclosure can be made in writing or verbally. In addition, in Rayner vs. Wise Realty Co. of Tallahassee, the First District Court of Appeal provided that this same disclosure requirement applies to residential properties that are being sold as is.

Interestingly though, under Section 689.25(1)(b), Florida Statutes, a homicide, suicide, or death that occurred on the property is not a material fact that must be disclosed in a real estate transaction. I've heard in many states you must disclose this info but that is not the case in FL.

[Big House]

Originally Posted by Old Gal

BH, are the homeowners in Florida not required by law to disclose this if they are aware of it?

Usually there is a disclosure addendum that is apart of the closing package when houses sell. However, many homes have already been sold, flipped, and resold several times in the past several years. Therefore, since the disclosure addendum is a recent addition to the closing packages meaning that the last (possibly Couple of) buyers may never have known if a house was ever remediated because it wasn't disclosed to them. There is a potential short fall of information available to a new buyer. The language in these disclosure addendum's vary as well, so perfection is not guaranteed. Bottom line, buyers have to beware. Do quality inspections, hire a good agent that knows the clues, and will advise you to her (guess of a concern), and accept as a buyer that the risk is yours.

Bottom line, it's not likely you'll ever see a home that has had Chinese drywall unless you look at hundreds, like I did, and many agents do. I've looked at thousands of homes and can count on my hands the number of homes I might suspect of having CWD. There are homes that have it. But it's not as widespread as you think. It wouldn't slow me down from buying a home. It's just one more thing I'd have on my checklist when viewing homes, like foundation cracks, leaks and stains in the ceiling, ........... Etc........ It's a scary subject, but reasonable caution and a few dollars having some testing done should allow everyone to sleep comfy in their new home.

[SJNE17]

Disclosures are typically worth the paper they're printed on. Maybe. Oftentimes, less.

Buyer should ALWAYS beware, and do their own due diligence.

It may mean spending several hundred to a couple thousand bucks for inspections of various sorts. That's cheap relative to the consequences of a bad decision.

Oh and inspections themselves can be flawed, some boneheaded inspector might be in cahoots with agent/seller or just simply not know his/her field well. Been there, seen that.

Isn't real estate fun?