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Fester - what you interpret as "brutally negative" is front line realism, there is a huge difference. I am, by nature, an optomist. However, when I see someone encourage people to move here and take a chance without reminding them that they need a financial cushion, I am reminded of the people I've met who did just this. The common denominator is that they all thought they could find work here and were stunned to discover how much competition there was (is).
We all know that many people move here totally prepared and are successful. None of us are addressing our caveat to them.
Zippy - you've got it all wrong! Nobody is complaining about people moving here. Many of us actually encourage ppl to DM us for more info. I've helped quite a few people with specific info about the area to help them prepare for their move.
I'd love to know what kind of job you found.
As you know, (or maybe not?) the higher a person's salary is, and their qualifications, the longer it takes to find a job. This is a proven fact. So you cannot compare your experience to someone else's.
Fester - I am sorry your dad is out of work and hope he finds employment soon. But for some people who don't, it means they lose their home. Nobody wants to see this happen to anyone - hence our warnings.
As for you dodging the bullet at IBM - I hope you continue to. Sadly, I've know many people who weren't so lucky. IBM is known for plucking the higher paid, and often senior workers out first when layoffs start. Although they do throw in a few "young uns" to balance it out. Of course a lot depends on your dept. My daughter was 25 when she was laid off from there, her entire dept closed.
To put things into perspective, the N&O recently ran an article about foreclosures. It seems we are getting ready for another round of them, and this time the #'s are greater than in 2009.
Remember, 100 people per day, move to Wake County, how's that for competition?! And this doesn't count the folks who are remote job searching from out of state.
part of the problem is that the technologies developed in the Triangel over the past 20 years are now the reason why it's possible to transfer work offshore to cheaper locations in India and China, with highly educated work forces getting paid a fraction of US employment costs.
IBM and Cisco are just 2 local technology giants who have made substantial investments in developing offshore capabilities in India, which once operational start undertaking work previously undertaken in the US and the Triangle campuses. Cisco for instance now has over 6000 employees at it's Bangalore Development Center, and that excludes the employees of it's Joint Development Centers with Wipro and Infosys, compared to about 4000 in RTP.
Also, one needs to recognise that India and China are huge growth areas and much of the new capacity there is to satisfy local demand but still there is the perception that as companies continually reorganize to satisfy the Wall Street Analysts demands for ever increasing profits, then more and more work is transferred from here to the offshore centers and the Triangle will need to continually reinvent itself to remain competitive and attract new technologies if employment here is to remain healty.
Who knows but it is possible in the future that we may see a migration of many Asian transplants in the Triangle back to their home countries as they may have better employment oportunities there than here.
The main point of the post was trying to say that if you are miserable where you are currently living, why not roll the dice? I know what the Best case scenario is, but is the worst case scenario any worse than your current situation?
This of course makes sense, but as one who is frequently saying "Be sure you have a job first", my point is "If you're leaving where you are because of no job opportunities, why not improve your odds by moving somewhere that has a GOOD job market?" The Triangle, at this point in time, is not that place. Improve your odds and go to Texas or DC or one of the places much higher on the list of job markets, is my main point. This area used to be known for being a good market, and it seems that people haven't gotten the message that it's not like that anymore. Like MrsSteel, I see it as doing them a favor by saying "you have unrealistic (or outdated) expectations if someone has led you to believe that you'll move here and snap up a job right away, or even in a few months. You should really widen your search to places with lower unemployment and more new job growth." How is that being "negative"?
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I am one of those who has urged people to find employment before moving here if at all possible. But I do not consider myself a nay-sayer, nor do I consider myself a pessimist. I give this advice purely from a place of compassion. Even when the economy was better, the competition for jobs was stiff in many fields here. Now that our state's unemployment rate is so high - higher than the national average - it's even harder to get a job here. I can't imagine how much harder it would be for someone brand new to North Carolina ... someone without a network that could provide them leads and local recommendations.
Exactly. Week after week we see the posts saying "I'm moving there because I heard it's a booming job market, and I'm confident I'll find a job right away!!", so there are still folks out there not getting the message. Why is telling someone that this is no longer the case a bad thing? Is it "nicer" to let them come here and meet reality head on in a nasty way, and find out the hard way that they aren't the only "fresh new face" knocking on the door of that HR office that day? Or to say "Just so you'll know, things have changed in a major way since that Fortune article you bookmarked in 2008 and are just now following up on. Hope you have a lot of savings and a Plan B (and C), for your own good."?
Quote:
However, when I see someone encourage people to move here and take a chance without reminding them that they need a financial cushion, I am reminded of the people I've met who did just this. The common denominator is that they all thought they could find work here and were stunned to discover how much competition there was (is).
People generally are going to believe what they want to believe, and they can see 8 negative responses for every positive one, and will filter out the ones that disagree with what they'd LIKE to believe. And who wouldn't like to believe that the Triangle is "The Land of Milk and Honey" and every problem they ever had will be solved if they would just move here, don't stop to worry about such trivialities as a paycheck"? Many, many folks are spreading that word up North and other places. Is it a bad thing to season misperceptions with reality?
This of course makes sense, but as one who is frequently saying "Be sure you have a job first", my point is "If you're leaving where you are because of no job opportunities, why not improve your odds by moving somewhere that has a GOOD job market?" The Triangle, at this point in time, is not that place. Improve your odds and go to Texas or DC or one of the places much higher on the list of job markets, is my main point. This area used to be known for being a good market, and it seems that people haven't gotten the message that it's not like that anymore. Like MrsSteel, I see it as doing them a favor by saying "you have unrealistic (or outdated) expectations if someone has led you to believe that you'll move here and snap up a job right away, or even in a few months. You should really widen your search to places with lower unemployment and more new job growth." How is that being "negative"?
Exactly. Week after week we see the posts saying "I'm moving there because I heard it's a booming job market, and I'm confident I'll find a job right away!!", so there are still folks out there not getting the message. Why is telling someone that this is no longer the case a bad thing? Is it "nicer" to let them come here and meet reality head on in a nasty way, and find out the hard way that they aren't the only "fresh new face" knocking on the door of that HR office that day? Or to say "Just so you'll know, things have changed in a major way since that Fortune article you bookmarked in 2008 and are just now following up on. Hope you have a lot of savings and a Plan B (and C), for your own good."?
People generally are going to believe what they want to believe, and they can see 8 negative responses for every positive one, and will filter out the ones that disagree with what they'd LIKE to believe. And who wouldn't like to believe that the Triangle is "The Land of Milk and Honey" and every problem they ever had will be solved if they would just move here, don't stop to worry about such trivialities as a paycheck"? Many, many folks are spreading that word up North and other places. Is it a bad thing to season misperceptions with reality?
Speaking to the part I bolded, I have not seen anyone post this. I think it is extremely important that all the information be put on the table for review by those considering moving. This means the good and the bad. Moving is something no one should ever take lightly. There is absolutely no way we can tell anyone what is best for them. We just don't know the person and their situation. I just don't see anyone stating we are booming here.
By the same token, shame on anyone who might try to hint that we are doing great and it will be an easy move. We are basically middle of the pack at this point in time and a lot of it will have to do with what field you are in and what YOUR expectations are. Set them too high and you no doubt will be disappointed. Prepare yourself for all possibilities and educate yourself and you stand a good chance of doing well.
Speaking to the part I bolded, I have not seen anyone post this. I think it is extremely important that all the information be put on the table for review by those considering moving. This means the good and the bad. Moving is something no one should ever take lightly. There is absolutely no way we can tell anyone what is best for them. We just don't know the person and their situation. I just don't see anyone stating we are booming here.
By the same token, shame on anyone who might try to hint that we are doing great and it will be an easy move. We are basically middle of the pack at this point in time and a lot of it will have to do with what field you are in and what YOUR expectations are. Set them too high and you no doubt will be disappointed. Prepare yourself for all possibilities and educate yourself and you stand a good chance of doing well.
Welcome to CityData.
Yes, people have posted similar to, albeit typically with a little less hyperbole, "I'm moving there because I heard it's a booming job market," fairly often, although less often lately.
Sometimes they are a little deluded, possibly from reading long tail internet postings dating from when the jobs engine was perking along furiously.
Sometimes they are really just curious whether our employment situation is better than the 15% unemployment, or whatever, they see where they are.
And sometimes they are abused by hyperbolic posters who cite barely relevant statewide employment statistics that are skewed by farming and factory unemployment stats from rural NC counties, all the while having little or no knowledge of the posters' means, skills, history, or liabilities.
Welcome to CityData.
Yes, people have posted similar to, albeit typically with a little less hyperbole, "I'm moving there because I heard it's a booming job market," fairly often, although less often lately.
Sometimes they are a little deluded, possibly from reading long tail internet postings dating from when the jobs engine was perking along furiously.
Sometimes they are really just curious whether our employment situation is better than the 15% unemployment, or whatever, they see where they are.
And sometimes they are abused by hyperbolic posters who cite barely relevant statewide employment statistics that are skewed by farming and factory unemployment stats from rural NC counties, all the while having little or no knowledge of the posters' means, skills, history, or liabilities.
I can see someone thinking we may be better than where they may be coming from but that is quite different than thinking the area is booming. I don't even think areas with relatively low unemployment are booming. There is so much more that goes into the overall health of the economy than the unemployment rate itself. This is why people need to educate themselves and should not take a move lightly.
I concur with your comment on hyperbolic posters using statistics that are skewed. This is precisely why people need to do more research. People need to ask these questions and not rely on one piece of information. Why is the NC unemployment rate so high? Does this mean the entire state is in the toilet? Where are the brighter spots? What are the local economists saying? What was the cause of the state and local economic downturn? Is it a temporary situation? What are local governments doing to create a better business environment?
Study, research, educate yourself. Plan for the worst case situation and set realistic expectations.
This of course makes sense, but as one who is frequently saying "Be sure you have a job first", my point is "If you're leaving where you are because of no job opportunities, why not improve your odds by moving somewhere that has a GOOD job market?" The Triangle, at this point in time, is not that place. Improve your odds and go to Texas or DC or one of the places much higher on the list of job markets, is my main point. This area used to be known for being a good market, and it seems that people haven't gotten the message that it's not like that anymore. Like MrsSteel, I see it as doing them a favor by saying "you have unrealistic (or outdated) expectations if someone has led you to believe that you'll move here and snap up a job right away, or even in a few months. You should really widen your search to places with lower unemployment and more new job growth." How is that being "negative"?
Exactly. Week after week we see the posts saying "I'm moving there because I heard it's a booming job market, and I'm confident I'll find a job right away!!", so there are still folks out there not getting the message. Why is telling someone that this is no longer the case a bad thing? Is it "nicer" to let them come here and meet reality head on in a nasty way, and find out the hard way that they aren't the only "fresh new face" knocking on the door of that HR office that day? Or to say "Just so you'll know, things have changed in a major way since that Fortune article you bookmarked in 2008 and are just now following up on. Hope you have a lot of savings and a Plan B (and C), for your own good."?
People generally are going to believe what they want to believe, and they can see 8 negative responses for every positive one, and will filter out the ones that disagree with what they'd LIKE to believe. And who wouldn't like to believe that the Triangle is "The Land of Milk and Honey" and every problem they ever had will be solved if they would just move here, don't stop to worry about such trivialities as a paycheck"? Many, many folks are spreading that word up North and other places. Is it a bad thing to season misperceptions with reality?
I agree with you.
Years ago, folks in Puerto Rico flocked to NYC with the "streets are paved in gold" crap in their heads. They came with the address of the welfare office since they were citizens and eligible for immediate benefits.
Over in Puerto Rico, they were dazzled by the amounts of welfare checks given in NYC.
Well, they came and found out the rent for an apt in NYC.
Pop Zowie! One bubble just burst.
Same happening here with the crazy media claims that this is Heaven on Earth.
Regarding the OP, I'm with you. I'd rather fail on my own terms then get by on someone else's. This partial quote (often attributed to Goethe) has served to inspire and motivate me for many years.
"the moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamed would have come his way.".
I once tried to follow the paths forged by others but I found them crowded with too many people unwilling to trust in their own abilities and instincts. I hated being just a number along the way and have been much happier since taking risks.
Coincidentally I write this from my house in Raleigh almost three years to the day after I relocated my family down here because our life back in New York stopped making sense. We knew no one down here and my company was already waffling on whether or not to keep my practice going. But my gut feeling was that this was where we belonged and because I've long since committed to trusting my instincts and making decisions that weren't always supported by facts we made the move. Turns out I was right in doing so.
Nothing is guaranteed; jobs, house values, health. Live your live and don't just exist.
NYC - very philosphical; but we are not talking against moving to experience the wonder & exhilaration you describe We are giving down to earth, common sense advice to move here prepared with resources and not expecting a job right away - that's it, plain and simple!
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We are giving down to earth, common sense advice to move here prepared with resources and not expecting a job right away - that's it, plain and simple!
