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i'm sorry, but you are wrong. This is a TOTAL MISNOMER! I know first hand what happens. I have teacher friends, and was on the PTA, I've volunteered in the classroom.
They are being given extra help...have you been involved in our schools? What you have said is an insult to all educators and our system. I'm not being facetious, but really, what you've said is not true and is propaganda quoted by some of the folks who want us to think that busing is counterproductive.
Schools that don't meet AYP have programs in place to help children who are in academic need. My suggestion is don't take my word....go talk with any principal, ask them what strategies they use in this instance. Ask about the special teachers that are brought in. Talk with any representative of Communities in Schools, they'll tell you what happens. Ask our current board, yes, Tedesco, he should know.
If you don't want to go to just any school, go talk with Jennifer Carnes, Principal of Wilburn Elementary in NE Raleigh, she implemented such a program and team 3-4 yrs ago. And, talk with David Tuthill, he's a teacher there. He is originally from NY and is the best teacher I have seen in years, a brilliant, humble man! Wilburn Staff
As for their progress not being tracked...each child has a records folder, it goes with them! Teachers review this info. My elementary school (Hodge Rd) also reviewed this with me before my child went to middle school.
Your last statement about rich people...I'm not following???
I just don't see what any of this has to do with the diversity policy.
Why can't special teachers(wait, gasp, a whole TEAM of special teachers) be brought into the NEIGHBORHOOD schools that are suffering? Why does it have to be that kids are bussed all over town, THEN given special help?
IMO, yes every student should be given an honest opportunity, but that doesn't automatically mean that the diversity/busing policy is the answer.
I think proper funding and teaching programs should be able to work. Of course that is up to the school board I suppose.
i'm sorry, but you are wrong. This is a TOTAL MISNOMER! I know first hand what happens. I have teacher friends, and was on the PTA, I've volunteered in the classroom.
They are being given extra help...have you been involved in our schools? What you have said is an insult to all educators and our system. I'm not being facetious, but really, what you've said is not true and is propaganda quoted by some of the folks who want us to think that busing is counterproductive.
Schools that don't meet AYP have programs in place to help children who are in academic need. My suggestion is don't take my word....go talk with any principal, ask them what strategies they use in this instance. Ask about the special teachers that are brought in. Talk with any representative of Communities in Schools, they'll tell you what happens. Ask our current board, yes, Tedesco, he should know.
If you don't want to go to just any school, go talk with Jennifer Carnes, Principal of Wilburn Elementary in NE Raleigh, she implemented such a program and team 3-4 yrs ago. And, talk with David Tuthill, he's a teacher there. He is originally from NY and is the best teacher I have seen in years, a brilliant, humble man! Wilburn Staff
As for their progress not being tracked...each child has a records folder, it goes with them! Teachers review this info. My elementary school (Hodge Rd) also reviewed this with me before my child went to middle school.
Your last statement about rich people...I'm not following???
It's funny that you should mention CIS. I've met 3 or 4 CIS volunteers who have said that the long distances their students are bused is an issue for them. Everybody has a different perspective.
As for the progress being tracked, the director of WCPSS's Evaluation and Research Dept has said in public that they are not concerned with how the individual students are performing, they are concerned with the school as a whole. They do not track individual student achievement when it comes to evaluating how well a program is working, they look at the school's overall scores. Well, it's kind of no-brainer that if you make sure you don't have too many low performing kids in any one school that the overall school's scores will be good. Our schools are deemed a success even if the low income children in them are failing.
You mention Hodge Road. Look for the report on the WcPSS website that talks about how low income kids there were given remedial programs even though they were already performing at or above grade level.
It's not as simple as saying diversity policy good, neighborhood schools bad. I've never had a problem with a diversity component in our assignment policies, but WCPSS has taken it too far. Busing low income kids out of school A with 30% F&R to School B 18 miles away just raise School B's F&R percentage is not helping those kids.
The current diversity policy feels good but the results are just not there. In some cases, PTAs, staff & admin of some schools begged to keep their low income or ESL nodes. They didn't want them to be moved arbitrarily--they had made connections with them and their families and thought the move would be detrimental. They were moved anyway. Far away to a new year round school that 'needed' them.
As for being given extra help--the original poster may have been referring to the fact that some of these kids are being bused out of schools with Title 1 programs in place to non-Title 1 schools with no extra resources or programs to help them. Just busing kids out to Green Hope isn't going to do anything.
Tedesco has never advocated for a strict proximity assignment plan. He has always been in favor of a 'cluster' type of plan that can keep some diversity without busing kids 15 miles away.
I just don't see what any of this has to do with the diversity policy.
Why can't special teachers(wait, gasp, a whole TEAM of special teachers) be brought into the NEIGHBORHOOD schools that are suffering? Why does it have to be that kids are bussed all over town, THEN given special help?
IMO, yes every student should be given an honest opportunity, but that doesn't automatically mean that the diversity/busing policy is the answer.
I think proper funding and teaching programs should be able to work. Of course that is up to the school board I suppose.
Your answer is in my post which you responded to!
They DO bring in special teachers - look at my example of Wilburn elementary.
They don't see a kid's low end of grade scores and say, ok, Joe, let's move 'em outta here, back up the bus, beep, beep! Just what kind of people do you think our educators are???
i have several teacher-friends that i've discussed these issues with. many of them are teachers who have low-achieving students with whom they are trying to work specifically because the need is great.
although the AYPs are certainly averaged when you distribute out the children who are failing miserably across the school district rather than letting the chips fall where they may. if an entire school were to be far, far below the AYPs, then there would be requirements to address those issues rather than diluting them across the county, right?
this is where i think returning to neighborhood schools would allow (actually, REQUIRE) the WCPSS to actually deal with the overcrowding issues & the dreaded academic-failings issues. it would force them to address the number of school children in classrooms & it would force them to address the failing students rather than simply dissipating them across the county.
Yes! Another issue is that there are no repurcussions for a non-Title 1 school that doesn't make AYP. They don't get $ for extra programs and they don't have to do anything. That doesn't mean that the teachers don't care or want to help those kids, just that the school system doesn't have to do anything for that school. A non-Title 1 school can fail NCLB every year and there are no sanctions. No transfers or tutoring like the Title 1 schools face if they don't pass.
i'm sorry, but you are wrong. This is a TOTAL MISNOMER! I know first hand what happens. I have teacher friends, and was on the PTA, I've volunteered in the classroom.
They are being given extra help...have you been involved in our schools? What you have said is an insult to all educators and our system. I'm not being facetious, but really, what you've said is not true and is propaganda quoted by some of the folks who want us to think that busing is counterproductive.
Schools that don't meet AYP have programs in place to help children who are in academic need. My suggestion is don't take my word....go talk with any principal, ask them what strategies they use in this instance. Ask about the special teachers that are brought in. Talk with any representative of Communities in Schools, they'll tell you what happens. Ask our current board, yes, Tedesco, he should know.
If you don't want to go to just any school, go talk with Jennifer Carnes, Principal of Wilburn Elementary in NE Raleigh, she implemented such a program and team 3-4 yrs ago. And, talk with David Tuthill, he's a teacher there. He is originally from NY and is the best teacher I have seen in years, a brilliant, humble man! Wilburn Staff
As for their progress not being tracked...each child has a records folder, it goes with them! Teachers review this info. My elementary school (Hodge Rd) also reviewed this with me before my child went to middle school.
Your last statement about rich people...I'm not following???
Yes I have been involved in schools to the extent that I volunteer in my childs school almost every week. And yes we do have a few of the low income kids in that class room.
How in the world have I insulted educators? And how about you not twist my words around? I come from a family of teachers (from the days of my great grand father) albeit from a differnt country.All of my aunts are currently teachers so I know first hand what kind of a job they have.
Yes, I dont beleive this system we have is perfect - It can be improved. We can do more to help these kids.
Maybe I didnt put my point across properly - I asked what "extra help" are these children been given ? Whatever you mentioned is being done in their base schools too isnt it ? Its not being done specially for the kids that are bused to far away schools. If its not being done in their base schools why is it not? Why can this enrichment/help not be offered at a school close to their home?IMO Instead of spending an hour on the bus in the morning they could spend the same hour at school in a productive manner. If that particular school would need more resources then they should be given those resources.
I dont really care for either the new or the old board so I am not buying the propoganda from both sides. There was a SAS study I think which said that the busing didnt really improve the scores of the kids but that was conveniently dismissed as being flawed by the old board. The new board does not even have a plan yet so I dont understand the opposition to them.But I do understand the opposition to some members of the new board who have a stake in private schools.
I will find out more about the school you mentioned thanks.
Wow, I don't know how to respond?! You totally either misunderstood what I said. Or...I don't know???
I can't keep spending time on this, I have other things to do. I just pick out posts that I know for a fact are spreading (innocently) wrong info. But I will respond to this as best I can before I go off line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighjayne
It's funny that you should mention CIS. I've met 3 or 4 CIS volunteers who have said that the long distances their students are bused is an issue for them. Everybody has a different perspective.
I mentioned CIS as being able to tell the poster what plans a school has for when academic intervention is needed. i didn't mention busing. But yes, I can see that some kids may be affected by a long bus ride. However, my daughter rides long distance, by choice, and it's not killing her! She does some homework on the bus and spends time socializing with her friends...no biggie. I prepare her for it by ensuring she goes to bed at the appropriate time. Many parents let their kids stay up too late and consequently they are sleep deprived and not ready for school. My daughter knows that Mo-Fr, school is her "job", she has to make sacrifices for it in terms of time. Wkend are her's except for chore time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighjayne
As for the progress being tracked, the director of WCPSS's Evaluation and Research Dept has said in public that they are not concerned with how the individual students are performing, they are concerned with the school as a whole. They do not track individual student achievement when it comes to evaluating how well a program is working, they look at the school's overall scores. Well, it's kind of no-brainer that if you make sure you don't have too many low performing kids in any one school that the overall school's scores will be good. Our schools are deemed a success even if the low income children in them are failing.
Clearly you are taking this out of context. It makes sense to me. And obviously our kids are tracked as they need to be by the appropriate staffers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighjayne
You mention Hodge Road. Look for the report on the WcPSS website that talks about how low income kids there were given remedial programs even though they were already performing at or above grade level.
Why didn't you include the link you quoted? I have no knowledge of this either way. Don't support or deny. But as a former parent and volunteer there, I never heard any parents complaining about this as an issue they wanted the PTA to tackle for them. Not that this is an indication...just saying. BTW - How is income determined? I have never shared my income with the school.[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighjayne
The current diversity policy feels good but the results are just not there. In some cases, PTAs, staff & admin of some schools begged to keep their low income or ESL nodes. They didn't want them to be moved arbitrarily--they had made connections with them and their families and thought the move would be detrimental. They were moved anyway. Far away to a new year round school that 'needed' them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighjayne
As for being given extra help--the original poster may have been referring to the fact that some of these kids are being bused out of schools with Title 1 programs in place to non-Title 1 schools with no extra resources or programs to help them. Just busing kids out to Green Hope isn't going to do anything.
I don't know that the op had this intention
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighjayne
Tedesco has never advocated for a strict proximity assignment plan. He has always been in favor of a 'cluster' type of plan that can keep some diversity without busing kids 15 miles away.
Yeah, so what is your point? I'm not getting why you said this. We all know this. I wasn't talking about this, I was suggesting the poster "ask" T what the plan is for kids/schools in academic need.
Yes I have been involved in schools to the extent that I volunteer in my childs school almost every week. And yes we do have a few of the low income kids in that class room.
Then you have missed out. Try having your child in a class where 80% are these kids. This is what some of us parents are concerned about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nclass
How in the world have I insulted educators? And how about you not twist my words around? I come from a family of teachers (from the days of my great grand father) albeit from a differnt country.All of my aunts are currently teachers so I know first hand what kind of a job they have.
This is how - you said: "Exactly what are we doing for these children ? They are not being given any extra help. They are just bussed to different schools with higher scores.Their progress is not tracked after they are shifted to a new school. Their low scores get averaged out and the powers to be are smug and happy.Using them as pawns to show improved scores and satisfy a few rich people who control their destiny is helping them?"
And I say to you - how do you know this????
Quote:
Originally Posted by nclass
Maybe I didnt put my point across properly - I asked what "extra help" are these children been given ? Whatever you mentioned is being done in their base schools too isnt it ? Its not being done specially for the kids that are bused to far away schools. If its not being done in their base schools why is it not? Why can this enrichment/help not be offered at a school close to their home?IMO Instead of spending an hour on the bus in the morning they could spend the same hour at school in a productive manner. If that particular school would need more resources then they should be given those resources.
See WCPSS website for this info, it's all there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nclass
I dont really care for either the new or the old board so I am not buying the propoganda from both sides. There was a SAS study I think which said that the busing didnt really improve the scores of the kids but that was conveniently dismissed as being flawed by the old board. The new board does not even have a plan yet so I dont understand the opposition to them.But I do understand the opposition to some members of the new board who have a stake in private schools.
I will find out more about the school you mentioned thanks.
Everyone talks about this. What about the flipside??? Maybe we are looking at the wrong thing? What if it doesn't improve their scores but in fact, it stops them from slipping, from the kids getting in with the wrong crowd due to peer pressure? If they are in a school with majority underachievers, the pressure is to be the same. Achievers are derided for caring. Whereas, if they are in a school with students who want an education, know its value, won't they learn this from them?
, but your statement implies that public schools in more affluent areas are successful at reaching all of the kids.
Umm, no it doesn't.
I just made a statement about Charter Schools. Many people use charter schools as an example of how to fix a broken system. While some charter schools in this country are doing great things, some are also failing kids (just as like public schools.... some are successful and some are failures.)
Like most complex problems in this world there are no easy, quick fixes.
Everyone talks about this. What about the flipside??? Maybe we are looking at the wrong thing? What if it doesn't improve their scores but in fact, it stops them from slipping, from the kids getting in with the wrong crowd due to peer pressure? If they are in a school with majority underachievers, the pressure is to be the same. Achievers are derided for caring. Whereas, if they are in a school with students who want an education, know its value, won't they learn this from them?
This sounds great and feels good but there is no evidence that's what is happening. Across the board, low income kids do not perform any better at low poverty schools in WCPSS. They just don't and if they did, we'd have heard about it long ago. When asked this very question, WCPSS says that they aren't interested in how the individual students are doing, only the school as a whole. The low income kids are still failing, they're just doing it in a different school--one that is 'healthy' overall. We are still failing these kids!
If these policies have stopped those kids from slipping even further then we've got a real crisis on our hands. Our low income kids aren't doing much better than they are in other districts that aren't busing for diversity. In fact, CMS has outperformed WCPSS in many of the minority and ED subgroups. (I am not saying CMS is the way to go--I think there's something better than CMS and WCPSS). We should be kicking everybody else's butts if these policies were working.
There are too many what-ifs and feel goods in the current policies, but little in the way of results. If busing kids all over the place was actually helping low income and minorities achieve, I'd be the first to say that the sacrifices we all make are worth it.
This sounds great and feels good but there is no evidence that's what is happening. Across the board, low income kids do not perform any better at low poverty schools in WCPSS. They just don't and if they did, we'd have heard about it long ago. When asked this very question, WCPSS says that they aren't interested in how the individual students are doing, only the school as a whole. The low income kids are still failing, they're just doing it in a different school--one that is 'healthy' overall. We are still failing these kids!
If these policies have stopped those kids from slipping even further then we've got a real crisis on our hands. Our low income kids aren't doing much better than they are in other districts that aren't busing for diversity. In fact, CMS has outperformed WCPSS in many of the minority and ED subgroups. (I am not saying CMS is the way to go--I think there's something better than CMS and WCPSS). We should be kicking everybody else's butts if these policies were working.
There are too many what-ifs and feel goods in the current policies, but little in the way of results. If busing kids all over the place was actually helping low income and minorities achieve, I'd be the first to say that the
sacrifices we all make are worth it.
I did a quick web search of this topic and unbelievably, the first piece I read says that kids can do better and they cite an example. What's interesting is they quote WCPSS! Yes, WCPSS has issue, I never said I agree 100% with the old board or their policies, but fair is fair. There's a lot one sided info out there. Affluent Parents Return to Inner-City Schools for Educational Opportunities | Edutopia
Now I'm sorry but I can't respond to you anymore, i have lots of work to do and don't want to continue to dominate this thread, cheers!
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